Music and Painting

[Frank H]

[Peter - please erase this thread if you think it inappropriate, as it's not strictly about music. I wanted a bit of "light relief" after the rather heavy posts I've posted recently - although I think there is a serious point in this]

The recent thread on “synaesthesia” reminds me of the interesting question as to how the various arts are related, or not so related, to one another. I have the thought that those who have similar tastes in music are also likely to have similar tastes in visual art, in poetry, novels etc. However, interesting differences can also arise.

I presume that I share some similarity in my musical tastes with those on this forum, as we all love Beethoven’s music. Among painters, I wonder if most of you would agree, or disagree, with me on the following. Perhaps you might suggest other painters I might look at.

I particularly like:
Paolo Uccello (1397-1475). Wonderful use of colour in this (literally) pre-Raphaelite Italian.

Albrecht Altdorfer (1480-1538) One of the earliest painters of magnificent landscapes.

El Greco (Domenikos Theotokopoulos) (1541-1614). Try “View of Toledo” – for starters.

Carel Fabritius (1622-1654) Showed signs he could have at least equalled Vermeer, on whom he was a notable influence – might have become the greatest Dutch master of all.
“Fabritius is generally considered Rembrandt's most gifted pupil and a painter of outstanding originality and distinction, but he died tragically young in the explosion of the Delft gunpowder magazine, leaving only a tiny body of work (much may have perished in the disaster)”.

Pieter de Hoogh 1629-1683(?) – not as fine as Vermeer, but some beautiful works.

Jan Vermeer 1632-1675 – I think he was the greatest of the Dutch masters.

Edward Burne-Jones (1833-1898) – one of the best of the "pre-Raphaelites".

Gustav Klimt (1862-1918) – erotic and sensuous paintings of women, but also nature painting.

Rene Magritte (1898-1967) – The “Empire of Lights” is a wonderful painting.

But my favourite painter of all is:
CASPAR DAVID FRIEDRICH b. Sept. 5, 1774, d. May 7, 1840 – a contemporary of Beethoven. Beautiful, inspirational, haunting landscapes. Occasional human figures, sometimes presented in a very moving way. German Romanticism at its healthiest.


Incidentally, of all the arts, I rate Music the highest, by quite a long way.

Regards to all,

Frank

[This message has been edited by Frank H (edited 02-23-2006).]

[Peter]

No I wouldn't erase such an interesting post and the arts are linked. Of the artists you mentioned I'm most familiar with Jan Vermeer, Edward Burne-Jones and Gustav Klimt and I agree with your assessments. I have a print of Klimt's Beethoven Frieze - I only regret that I didn't have time to view the original on my visit to Vienna, too busy with Beethoven!

Klimt I believe had an affair with Alma Mahler?


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'Man know thyself'

[robert newman]

Very interesting subject Frank ! As a lover of Beethoven's music my favourite artists include -

Vermeer
Lucas Cranach (with whom my family on my mother's side are ancestrally related)
Raphael
Titian
Van Gough
Matisse
Picasso


Robert

[Teresa]

Oops, needed a comma between these two: Childe Hassam, Maurice Prendergast.


Teresa

[This message has been edited by Teresa (edited 02-23-2006).]

[Teresa]

Well, in the process of editing I deleted my original message.

This subject interest me as well as I love the arts. My favorite painters would be:

Van Gogh
Childe Hassam
Maurice Prendergast
Vermeer
Kandinsky

I do collage art and some watercolor and I love to paint while listening to classical music, so the two are certainly connected, in my mind. Certain pieces of music can evoke certain moods while painting.

Regards,
Teresa

[HaydnFan]

Not sure if Klimt had an affair with Alma Mahler, I know the painter Oskar Kokoschka certainly did.

I agree with you about Friedrich, an excellent painter and of course, Vermeer is wonderful, especially his View of Delft.

One of my favourite is Michelangelo da Caravaggio; his intense light and dark is stunning and highly emotional. For the same reason, I also adore Rembrandt.

Of the Neoclassic era, I love Jean-Auguste Dominique Ingres, not for his themes but for his ability to paint "real life" like nobody else, far surpassing the likes of da Vinci or Raphael in my opinion.

[Frank H]

Originally posted by Peter:
No I wouldn't erase such an interesting post and the arts are linked. Of the artists you mentioned I'm most familiar with Jan Vermeer, Edward Burne-Jones and Gustav Klimt and I agree with your assessments. I have a print of Klimt's Beethoven Frieze - I only regret that I didn't have time to view the original on my visit to Vienna, too busy with Beethoven!

Klimt I believe had an affair with Alma Mahler?

If all the stories are to be believed, Alma Mahler seems to have been involved in some way with almost all the leading male cultural figures of her time! I believe that Klimt is supposed to have given her her first kiss.

Strange to think that Alma Mahler died as recently as 1964.

Thanks to all who have replied to my post. I've already been alerted by your replies to two painters I had, I must confess, never heard of before - Childe Hassam and Maurice Prendergast. I went to "Google" to find out more about them - they were leading American Impressionists, who certainly produced some fine paintings.

Regards to all,

Frank

[This message has been edited by Frank H (edited 02-24-2006).]

[Teresa]

For an excellent fine art site, go to http://cgfa.sunsite.dk. Pretty much every painter you can think of here.

Teresa

[JA Gardiner]

Turner has always seemed to me to be the visual equivalent of Beethoven. I also adore the Flemish painters named above,and earlier artists such as Mantegna, da Vinci, Michelangelo, Carravaggio and the divine Raphael,Cranach, Holbein and Durer who bring to mind Monteverdi, Bach, Vivaldi, Purcell and all those English Tudor songwriters. Of more modern artists , whilst obviously wowed by the Impressionists, I'm less keen on the associated music. I do however love the Mahlerianism of Art Nouveau. Picasso and Edward Hopper move me with their humanity and I'm constantly drawn to the superbly meditative work of Mark Rothko who for some reason I hear in the reflective and spiritual music of Taverner, Part and Gorecki

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Beethoven the Man!

[Chaszz]

I'd like to add to the fine list already compiled:

Winslow Homer's watercolors
John Singer Sargent's watercolors

In both cases the oils leave me somewhat indifferent but I love the watercolors.

Chardin
Watteau
Cezanne - the greatest of painters in an architectural, formal sense; the Bach of painting
Poussin - Cezanne's idol and a close second to his pupil
Monet
Giorgione
Giotto - early 'father' of the Italian Renaissance - for intense human feeling see his 'Deposition'
Another vote for Titian - the first painter to use brushwork as an expressive means
Velazquez - best seen in person, as reproductions give little sense of the silvery sheen of his paint handling which captures reality eerily
Goya
Another mention of Holbein. How lucky for us that one of the most charismatic and dramatic kings, Henry VIII, had one of the greatest portrait painters at his court

Another mention of Rembrandt, the Shakespeare of the human face. His self-portraits as an old man are a good analogue to Beethoven's late quartets

and not painting, but way up there and equal to anything: the Parthenon sculptures in room 8 at the British Museum.

In addition to cgfa, these internet museums are fine sites with encyclopediac collections :

The Artchive (click on the Mona Lisa at upper left)
Artcyclopedia
Olga's Gallery




[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 02-25-2006).]

[Anthina]

I'm not into paintings at all and there are only few painters I like :-/ (always wondered how you can dislike painting while same time music is your life). The painters I like most are
Vermeer(I love the light in his paintings)
and Anton Raphael Mengs

Vermeer seems to be quite popular here



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*~Ja, was haben's da scho wieder gmacht, Beethoven?~*

[stude_ham]

There is also the classical music as background to animated films.

We all know about Disney's Fantasia's. But more interesting are such sequences as the Bugs Bunny take on The Barber of Seville or Tristan and Isolde. The animated shorts Ren and Stimpy always included the classics (including LVB) as part of the background music. And how often have we stumbled on Grieg's Dawn in watching animated shorts? Then of course, there is that classic takeoff by Woody Woodpecker on Rossini's William Tell Overture in which the final storm sounds are marvellously illustrated.

And into the paintings... is it not Magritte who somehow transforms a female naked form into a cello?

The National Film Board of Canada also produced a number of animated shorts using classical music in the background. In the 60's Ryan Larking did Syrinx based on the flute solo piece by Claude DeBussy. Earlier, Norman McLaren did a whole series of animations painted directly on the cellulose, one of which used the music of The Bumble Bee.

The list is endless... and not all uses of the classics in the arts are particularly good. Stan Kubrick's 2001 was a heavy handed attempt at foisting the director's preferences on an unsuspecting audience. Yee gads the subject matter was so shallow that any hack could have produced adequate background accompaniment for this production.

Oh well... it'll be ineresting to see what other delights are brought forward in this thread.



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There are many princes but only ONE Beethoven!

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Anthina:
I'm not into paintings at all and there are only few painters I like :-/ (always wondered how you can dislike painting while same time music is your life). The painters I like most are
Vermeer(I love the light in his paintings)
and Anton Raphael Mengs

Vermeer seems to be quite popular here

1. As to how one can love music and not like painting, as I noted in a simlar thread not too long ago, there is NOT ONE quote by a first rate great Germanic composer (Handel, Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Bruckner, R. Strauss) to my knowledge, which expresses any liking for painting, sculpture or architecture, except a few enthusiastic quotes by Wagner on Holbein and Titian. This depite their well-known love of poetry and literature in general. Oh, well...

2. If you like Vermeer's light... if Vermeer were a disaffected, alienated twentieth century city dweller, he might have painted like Edward Hopper, who also loved light.

[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 02-28-2006).]

[JA Gardiner]

Originally posted by Chaszz:

2. If you like Vermeer's light... if Vermeer were a disaffected, alienated twentieth century city dweller, he might have painted like Edward Hopper, who also loved light.[/B]

Yes I see what you mean Chazz. Compare and contrast Automat or Nighthawks or the lovely and sensual Morning Sun with any of Vermeer's portraits or interiors - Girl with a Pearl Earring, or The Milkmaid for example. Or any of Vermeer's or De Hooch's use of light on brickwork or through doors and down alleys to convey atmosphere and sense of intimate space with Hopper's streetscapes such as Early Sunday Morning, Captain Upton's House or Drugstore or the eroticism of Office at Night. They both have this incredible cinematic ability to suggest a story and emotion through lighting and framing and focus without having to spell it all out, and to hold our attention and make a connection with the characters that stays with us and continues to resonate as we develop their meaning for ourselves. Not quite sure of what the musical equivalent is that would capture that sense of stillness, solitude and encounter - possibly something like Hildegard of Bingen's plainchant or Gorecki's Third Symphony or one of Mahler's radiant slow movements that could stop the heart. It would have to be something with real depth and not just surface shimmer like Vaughan Williams, Delius or Debussy - lovely though they are.

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Beethoven the Man!

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by JA Gardiner:
Yes I see what you mean Chazz. Compare and contrast Automat or Nighthawks or the lovely and sensual Morning Sun with any of Vermeer's portraits or interiors - Girl with a Pearl Earring, or The Milkmaid for example. Or any of Vermeer's or De Hooch's use of light on brickwork or through doors and down alleys to convey atmosphere and sense of intimate space with Hopper's streetscapes such as Early Sunday Morning, Captain Upton's House or Drugstore or the eroticism of Office at Night. They both have this incredible cinematic ability to suggest a story and emotion through lighting and framing and focus without having to spell it all out, and to hold our attention and make a connection with the characters that stays with us and continues to resonate as we develop their meaning for ourselves. Not quite sure of what the musical equivalent is that would capture that sense of stillness, solitude and encounter - possibly something like Hildegard of Bingen's plainchant or Gorecki's Third Symphony or one of Mahler's radiant slow movements that could stop the heart. It would have to be something with real depth and not just surface shimmer like Vaughan Williams, Delius or Debussy - lovely though they are.

A lovely piece of writing, JA. Hopper is an American master not generally much appreciated in Europe, so it's nice to see some one from the UK write so well about him!