Period Instrument recordings - the Symphonies

[heybatter]

Hello all

I stumbled across this board while trying to find some period instrument or original instrument recordings of the symphonies. My web search was not fruitful.

Any recommendations?

thank you

[Rutradelusasa]

Period instruments involve much personal taste, so, if you can, try to listen to this:
1 - Gardiner and the Orquestre Revolutionaire et Romantique - All nine
2 - Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music - All nine
3 - Norrington and the London Classical Players - All nine
4 - Savall and the Les Concerts des Nacions - 3rd
5 - Frans Brüggen (also Brueggen, Bruggen) and the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightment - All nine
6 - Goodman and the Hanover Band - all nine
7 - Herreweghe and the Orchestre des Champs Elisees - the 9th.

This is a handful of recordings, of which:
1 - is my favourite
2 - 's 9th is the most savage and the biggest band
3 - is the personal favourite of some here in the forum, specially Rod (I hope I'm right, Rod).
4 - is a wonderful recording, ear opening 3rd. Safe choice.
5 - is tough to find, but the most humane recording of all.
6 - wonderful, also a personal favourite (of Rod ). I like it better than Norrington's and it comes with the Missa Solemnis at a very cheap price. yay!
7 - I generally like Herreweghe a lot, but I think he missed the point. Like Gardiner's 9th, but without what makes Gardiner's special. One hell of a heavy tenor, though.

Hope this helps.
As you'll find out, in period instruments all you need is a start, but then it becomes a more personal journey, because the bands *do* sound different, one thing reserved, in modern bands, only to the VPO and a few others.


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"Wer ein holdes weib errugen..."

[heybatter]

Thank you..it most certainly helps. A nice start, which is just what I was looking for. A jumping off point, if you will.

Thank you again

[Peter]

Originally posted by heybatter:
Thank you..it most certainly helps. A nice start, which is just what I was looking for. A jumping off point, if you will.

Thank you again

The Norrington set is amazing value, I think I got mine for under £10.00.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Rutradelusasa:
Period instruments involve much personal taste, so, if you can, try to listen to this:
1 - Gardiner and the Orquestre Revolutionaire et Romantique - All nine
2 - Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music - All nine
3 - Norrington and the London Classical Players - All nine
4 - Savall and the Les Concerts des Nacions - 3rd
5 - Frans Brüggen (also Brueggen, Bruggen) and the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightment - All nine
6 - Goodman and the Hanover Band - all nine
7 - Herreweghe and the Orchestre des Champs Elisees - the 9th.

3 and 6 are the best value sets and are the ones I listen too, though neither are perfect in every way. I was dissapointed with 1 overall though it has some good moments, in fact I gave the whole set away because i was expecting so much more from Gardiner. 2 - this set is ok but the direction is typically a little 'square'. 4 - is the best Eroica you'll hear to my mind. 5 - I haven't heard because it has been deleted for a long time - a pity as Bruggen's more recent Beethoven releases (The Creatures of Prometheus and the Violin Concerto) are the best recordings you can get of these pieces. 7 - I had this but gave it away too but can't remember why, the performance must have been missing something.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 03-13-2006).]

[atserriotserri]

I'm listening to Mozart's 31 & 41 by Pinnock, Hogwood & Marriner to discuss them with a friend, so we have 2 period versions and 1 modern and I'm thinking about doing it with Beethoven's symphonies, so the information you've offered has been, as always, of great help.
On the other hand, I stumbled on a Harnoncourt set (Telarc). I read a review in which was said that instead of period instruments used modern instruments, bows & strings (even though some period winds are used), but tried to get as close as possible to the original in terms of size of the orchestra, tempo, etc...
Modestly I don't think this methodology is that unique as to be highlighted in a magazine as a distinctive mark (besides for promotional reasons) because I think there certainly may be other directors who put the stress in those aspects. Am I wrong?

[Rutradelusasa]

Originally posted by atserriotserri:
I'm listening to Mozart's 31 & 41 by Pinnock, Hogwood & Marriner to discuss them with a friend, so we have 2 period versions and 1 modern and I'm thinking about doing it with Beethoven's symphonies, so the information you've offered has been, as always, of great help.
On the other hand, I stumbled on a Harnoncourt set (Telarc). I read a review in which was said that instead of period asterrioterinstruments used modern instruments, bows & strings (even though some period winds are used), but tried to get as close as possible to the original in terms of size of the orchestra, tempo, etc...
Modestly I don't think this methodology is that unique as to be highlighted in a magazine as a distinctive mark (besides for promotional reasons) because I think there certainly may be other directors who put the stress in those aspects. Am I wrong?

It isn't just about the uniqueness, which it certainly isn't anymore. When it was released, it was the closest a modern performance would get to a period one. I guess it still it, but since then Zinman's, Mackerras' and others have come out.

On a side note: I forgot to post this, thank you atserriotserri for bringing up the topic again: I can produce the mp3 for the symphonies with Bruggen if wanted. No problem whatsoever to me . I even am listening to it now...



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"Wer ein holdes weib errugen..."

[atserriotserri]

Originally posted by Rutradelusasa:
It isn't just about the uniqueness, which it certainly isn't anymore. When it was released, it was the closest a modern performance would get to a period one. I guess it still it, but since then Zinman's, Mackerras' and others have come out.

On a side note: I forgot to post this, thank you atserriotserri for bringing up the topic again: I can produce the mp3 for the symphonies with Bruggen if wanted. No problem whatsoever to me . I even am listening to it now...
[/B]

Thanks you very much I'll see what I can find (and afford, hehe). By the way, for me, who after a long silence is back to the forum would be very interesting the Bruggen symphonies posting that you propose .
We could see if the feedback would be higher, since it was mentioned on other topic the lack of participation on the mp3 topic.

[JAC6]

I have all nine by Norrington, Goodman, and Hogwood, and the Third, Fifth, and Ninth by Gardiner. I think all have virtues, but Norrington, as has been pointed out, is quite the bargain (under $35 on Amazon for the complete cycle). That said, I think the Gardiner ones I have are excellent.

On this list, there's now also a complete cycle by Jos van Immerseel and Anima Eterna Orchestra, as well as a CD of the Fifth and Sixth from Bruno Weil and Tafelmusik.

[Hofrat]

May I add a few:

1. Smithsonian Chamber Orchestra under Jaap Schroeder (1988).
2. Tonhalle Orchestra Zurich under David Zinman (1998).

The Smithsonian series is on period instruments. The Zinman series is performed from the new (then) Barenreiter Edition of the Beethoven symphonies.

When you have finished with the symphonies, I can give you some suggestions of his piano concerti and chamber music on period instruments.

[JAC6]

It's rare that the New York Times has an article about Beethoven's symphonies on period instruments, but they do today.

In Italy, ‘Eroica’ Energizes a Frail Fixture of Period Music
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/30/ar...prod=permalink

SPOLETO, Italy — The stooped figure, his head topped with a shock of white hair, made his way slowly out onto the stage of a toy-size theater on Sunday as muses gazed down from the frescoed ceiling.

Taking his seat facing the Orchestra of the 18th Century, the man, Frans Bruggen, began conducting Beethoven’s “Eroica” Symphony, batonless, his right hand karate-chopping the air. It is a piece he has conducted more than 100 times, but players said that it was his favorite Beethoven and that he always seemed energized by it.

The performance in this Umbrian hill town had all the characteristics of music played on a best guess of the instruments from the era in which Beethoven wrote: the percussive sound of bow on gut strings, the tang of valveless brasses, the mellow blend of soft-wooded woodwinds with few keys and strings playing without vibrato. The orchestra had a lightness, transparency and rhythmic vigor made even more so by the dry acoustics of the Teatro Caio Melisso, an intimate 17th-century theater.

Mr. Bruggen, a Dutch lion of the period-instrument movement, has been a fixture with this orchestra since he founded it in 1981 in the Netherlands. It has few guest conductors and is closely identified with him. But the group seems to be entering a new phase, one in which Mr. Bruggen’s absence, and maybe even the orchestra’s, is beginning to be contemplated.

At 73, an increasingly frail Mr. Bruggen said he planned to conduct “until I fall dead, like all conductors.” In an interview during a break in rehearsal the previous day, he spoke about the orchestra’s future. He pointed out that most of the players had been with the orchestra for decades, if not from the beginning. “It means we all get older and older, and at a certain moment, people can’t do the travels they do, and at a certain moment the orchestra will disband, happily,” Mr. Bruggen said. He thought for a minute and added impishly, “I can’t understand why more orchestras don’t just disband.”

Right now, the Orchestra of the 18th Century seems far from that fate. Visiting the Festival of Two Worlds at Spoleto, it has embarked on its 88th tour. Spain comes next on this swing. In August it reassembles and heads for Poland and Germany. Three more tours are planned through November, in France, the Netherlands and again in Spain.

Touring is mainly what it does, along with recording. (Its mid-’90s CDs of the Beethoven symphonies are considered a landmark.) In 2005 it played its 1,000th concert.

The orchestra was founded by Mr. Bruggen and an old musicologist friend, Sieuwert Verster, who is about 20 years younger. Mr. Verster, who also has a full head of white hair (his tends to stand straight up in front), is basically the entire administration. The ensemble has about 65 members, about a third of whom are Dutch, with the rest coming from around the world, including several from the United States. All share equally in the proceeds of concerts. “I earn the same as the second clarinet,” Mr. Bruggen said.

There are no auditions: musicians in the small world of period-instrument performance are invited by word of mouth. A pool of younger musicians provide substitutes.

Most of the players are based in Europe and make a living playing on period instruments. Many of those instruments, especially in the woodwinds and brasses, are modern copies. A raft of new techniques must be learned — different fingerings, reeds, mouth positions and bow-holds. It is very roughly like professional baseball players’ becoming top cricketers.

The members take pride in their deep level of period style. The trumpeters, for example, point out that their instruments do not have small air holes to adjust pitch, the way many others do.

What was missing from a concert on Saturday evening (more Beethoven) was the lushness and sheer beauty of sound that can pour out of a modern orchestra. Period instruments, Mr. Bruggen said, produce 70 percent “sound” and 30 percent “noise,” compared with a 90-10 ratio with modern instruments.

Mr. Bruggen, who earlier in his career was known as one of the world’s leading recorder players, comes from a pioneering generation of period music specialists like Anner Bylsma, Nikolaus Harnoncourt and Gustav Leonhardt, now aging maestros who in the last 40 years helped change the face of classical music. Their emphasis on “authentic” practice — more flexible tempos, less string vibrato, sharper articulation — has seeped into big modern orchestras. They and their younger ilk are often invited as guests when Bach, Mozart, Vivaldi or Haydn are on the program.

Members of the Orchestra of the 18th Century have a hard time seeing anyone but Mr. Bruggen at the helm. His interpretations are so ingrained that if someone else tried to conduct, say, Beethoven’s Symphony No. 5, “it would be a mess, and everybody would blame the conductor,” said Jonathan Impett, a veteran trumpeter.

Twenty-seven years later, Mr. Bruggen enjoys a reservoir of good will from many of the players, who address him as Frans. “Everyone in the orchestra feels that the most sublime moments they have had in music have been with him,” said Alayne Leslie, an oboist sitting at an outdoor cafe on Saturday with a few colleagues.

In the orchestra’s maturity, a performance of signature pieces seems to have an elegiac feeling, some players say. “Everyone is very aware it could be the last one,” Ms. Leslie said. But, Mr. Impett noted dryly, “conductors live forever.”

[JAC6]

I'd be interested in suggestions/thoughts/reviews about the piano concertos on period instruments. I know of the following cycles:

Hogwood/Lubin
Gardiner/Levin
Norrington/Tan

The Norrington/Tan set is bargain-priced ($10 at Amazon for 4 CDs containing all five concertos).

[Ed C]

Thought I'd resurrect this thread by way of posting this link to a superbly written essay about the different kinds of Beethoven symphonies available as well as the role of Beethoven's music in Nazi Germany in the early 40's.

http://soundtime.wordpress.com/2010/...ing-beethoven/

The Furtwangler 1942 9th is pretty shattering, even through the lofi. I always imagine him conducting the piece with the expectation that he'll be shot at the last tutti...