Originally posted by Hofrat:
Dear Frank;
I am sorry to say, but 1 + 1 = 10 in binary, of course.
Hofrat
Dear Frank;
I am sorry to say, but 1 + 1 = 10 in binary, of course.
Hofrat
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Of course. But I'm sure someone could also "disprove" that!
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I am back. Old business.
Dear Peter, Agnes Selby said,
I had a lot of this as a kid growing up. When people take your name, warp it into something amusing & hang it on you as a way of having fun, it makes you - makes me - just want to go home & hide. That's the reason I haven't been here since Wednesday. That's not how a proper argument is conducted, and, yes, since it's my name, I set the rules. We each have that right.
I think Mr. Droell is having us all on.
The name Droell could easily be taken as droll. According to the dictionary, droll is an adjective meaning "amusingly queer".
Now on to other matters.
Erik has this useful information, from two posts:
Dear Erik, I hope you've got this nailed down, as I read something different from what you wrote.
Georg Nikolaus Nissen was born 22. January 1761, son of merchant Jens Nissen, but due to financial difficulties he was placed in care of his uncle (his mother’s brother), Vilhad Kristian Zoega, who raised him with his own son, Georg Zoega (1755-1809), who later became an archaeologist and art historian in Rome. He, too, was a student at the University of Copenhagen around 1778. And he, too, lived in Vienna for a time. ...
And by the way, it was not a particular rich uncle. He was a priest...
I had to remind myself why I was doing this. And that reason is that Mozart's death is suspicious. I think he faked it, and I think Erik's information tends to help confirm it.
While there are many possible outcomes to a faked death, two are common. One is that Constanze waits a year or so & then quietly packs up the family & disappears to join Mozart in exile.
The other, far bolder outcome, is that Mozart reappars a year or two later with a new, bulletproof identity. He then goes on being Mozart, one way or another, as that's who he was. And he was pretty bold.
I may be the first person in 150 years to work this out, but I am not the first person to have ever done so. Erik's information can be reinterpreted as a cover story. It goes like this:
The real Georg Nikolaus Nissen (GNN) died as a child. Someone helped Mozart to get GNN's papers for a new identity, then helped set him up as a Danish representative. Ambassador or lowly clerk, it really makes little difference. Either one makes him Danish property, which gets him around problems in Vienna.
But what if someone gets wise? What if someone starts asking unhelpful questions? What if inquiries are going to be made back in Denmark? How do you cover yourself?
Read again what Erik wrote: Son of a merchant so poor that he was given up to his mother's brother, who happened to be a priest.
Presumably this story came from "Nissen", one way or another. He is first of all saying that he came from the lowest of the low class, a merchant, one jump up from yeoman farmer. Poor means that his father was desperately unsuccessful. Poor & merchant, together, mean probably illiterate. Certainly nobody anyone nice wants to track down. After all, merchants & tradesmen go in by the back, not the front. And those selected to go in the back are the best of the lot. Ones who have a profitable trade.
To spare us from this agony, along comes the uncle priest. Priests, by definition, are literate. Lutheran or Catholic, they've all been ordained, which means they've all gone to seminary, where they all had to read & write. So a much better reference than daddy Nissen, whoever he really was. Someone we would want to contact.
As priests are assigned their parish by the local bishop (with or without being elected by the local parish, etc.), priests can end up in any particular town in the state of Denmark. Not necessarily Nissen's home town.
Convenient, too, the priest was an uncle on the mother's side. How can we independently confirm the maiden name of Nissen's mother, to establish that Vilhad Kristian Zoega is in fact her brother? Well, we probably can't. If she married a merchant so poor as to be forced to give up one of her own children, we might find the family as a whole to be illiterate. In which case there might not be a municipal record of the marriage, and church records might not be much better, and at any rate, searching out the mother's maiden name is just going to be more fuss & bother.
What all this means is that if you have any questions as to my past, don't go knocking on my father's door. Go here, instead. Knock on his.
I conclude that Vilhad Kristian Zoega, and his son, Georg Zoega, may have as easily been friends of Mozart/Nissen, with no connection whatever to the Nissens. Any of Mozart's Danish friends could have done, they could have resided anywhere in Denmark. THIS IS KNOWN AS A COVER STORY, and it's a pretty typical one. I've invented similar ones for my own use. It might be that it's true, but if that's all Erik's got, it's not possible to tell, one way or the other.
I was of the opinion that a real, Danish-born Nissen would have come from ne'er do well aristocratic stock. The best of such people are typically cultured, traveled, speak languages & would find a career in the Danish foreign service to be of interest, as they are otherwise broke, having no lands or tenants to support them. The foreign service, for its part, would be eager to have them. Overall, I still think it likely the Nissens were, in fact, at least gentlemen, as that word is used in English society. This is because the upper classes have better records kept of them than the lower.
But now the story goes in a different direction. Georg Nikolaus Nissen is the ghetto kid from a poor background who made good. He made so good, in fact, that he grew up to marry a famous widow & set about writing the biography of her first husband. Somehow this is not what self-made people usually do. They are usually burning with the desire for their own unique projects & will let nothing, not poverty, not hardship, stand in their way. That's pretty much the only way you escape grinding poverty & the small town life.
By the way, they make poor choices for diplomats. They tend to cut corners, go behind the backs of superiors & generally make themselves such a nuisance they get fired.
As for the Nissens, I suggest we go find some real ones.
Enough for one post. There are questions about Nissen's education for the next post.
[This message has been edited by Droell (edited 03-17-2006).]Comment
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I have questions about Nissen's education, and the languages he spoke.
Haderslev, Denmark, Nissen's birthplace, was earlier the birthplace of two Danish kings, Frederick II & III, the last born in 1609. It is today - or was in 1975, according to my aging reference - a town of about 20,000, located in SE Denmark, not far from the present German border. As I recall, the German border was once further south.
According to Erik, Nissen read law in Copenhagen. This means he was fluent in Latin & Greek. Universities commonly saw to that, and for good reason. The majority of books that could be found in most libraries at the time were in fact in Latin. Publishing in the vernacular (in this case, Danish) was a newfangled idea that seems to have gotten started, in England, at any rate, around the time of the Revolution (1640's). Prior to that, there had been, for several centuries, a most wonderful situation where books, published anywhere in Europe, could be exported, sold, collected & read by any educated man anywhere else in Europe. All sharing the common language of Latin. It is a pity that has disappeared.
So if Nissen is the son of a poor merchant, given out to a priestly uncle for upbringing, living, as they all did, in a homogeneous Danish society, how did he learn German? And what dialect of German did he learn?
High German & Low German only begin to describe the many patois in that area of the world at that time. On the east bank of the Rhine, there was Rhenish. On the west, Alsacienne. Somewhere in between, Wagner's Rhine Maidens with Switzerdeutsch (sp?). (Well, this is a music board!)
There might have been a German colony at that date in Copenhagen, though it strikes me as unlikely. It might be that Vilhad Kristian Zoega's wife was German, although this is also unlikely.
As for language studies at the University, one might ask why? and, how? If people do not ordinarily travel, and if Latin is the definition of a good education, why learn German? And if learning German means reading the language, how is this to be done in the absence of printed German literature? If all serious material is in Latin, that only leaves the cheap penny press in the vulgar tongue. Goethe is coming into prominence at this time, as are a lot of truly excellent German poets, but are they known in Denmark, and does the University pay any attention if they are?
Presuming there's an instructor of German at the University of Copenhagen & presuming that Nissen studies with him, where did that professor come from? Nearby Hamburg? Brandenburg? He's presumably teaching the language as he knows it. He presumably would have used German-language primers, the same as used by German students in German schools in this period. In the absence of real literature, in the absence of other native speakers, how effective was this kind of education? My own experience would suggest it wasn't much.
Mozart, by contrast, grew up on the road. He picks up a smattering of Latin, along with a smattering of Italian, Czech, French, Dutch, Danish & who knows what else.
So one thing that makes Nissen Nissen is if, at the time of his death, one finds a library of Latin books in his possession.
Another thing that will make Nissen Nissen is if the majority of his personal papers are in fluent Danish.
On the other hand, Nissen becomes Mozart if the majority of his papers are in German, especially if that German is of a level of sophistication similar to that found in Mozart's various letters.
I have met many wonderful foreigners in my life. Many with excellent spoken English. Yet with only one exception, they were all virtually illiterate in the written language. Speaking for myself, in my early 20's I learned French & once spoke it fluently. But despite university-level classes, in the US & France, I never wrote it that well.
So under this hypothesis, the Danish Nissen is fluent in Danish but not so much in written German.
The Mozart Nissen is fluent in German, but his written Danish is crude, or shows signs of having been written by some other hand, with only his signature on the document.
Erik's comment that Nissen retired to Denmark to become a censor, a largely ceremonial post, would have been suitable for either Nissen.
I am increasingly curious as to why Nissen left Vienna & resided in Copenhagen for eight years, from 1812 to 1820. The Danish Nissen would have been 51 years old, with some 19 years in the Viennese court. Napoleon at the time was moving an army in & out of Russia. This seems to have been a time when every good diplomatic hand would have been pressed to the max. Fifty-one, at any rate, is not usually thought of as a retirement age. I can invent stories (intrigue, exposed as Mozart, spy scandal, simple weariness) but have no sense of anything.
Comment
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Dear Droell;
As I read your theory and your responses to your contesters, I am reminded of a story my father told me about a man hiking in the Black Forest. An hour into his hike, he came across a tree which had a target painted on its trunk, and in the bull's eye of the target was an arrow. He continued his hike and came across another tree with a painted target and an arrow in its bull's eye. As he continued his hike, he came across more and more trees with painted targets and arrows in their bulls' eyes. Finally, the hiker came upon a boy with a bow and a quiver of arrows. The hiker asked if the boy was responsible for this fine feat of archery here in the forest. The young archer admitted that he was. The hiker asked the boy for the secret of his bowmanship and the boy answered, "First I shoot the arrow and then I paint the target around it!!"
It seems to me that you are "painting targets" around the arrows you are shooting.
Hofrat"Is it not strange that sheep guts should hale souls out of men's bodies?"Comment
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Erick, if I've read this correctly, this would seem to make Nissen to be, well, a peasant. Was he? And if so, why would he have been qualified to sit in the same room with kings & princes?Originally posted by Erik:
Georg Nikolaus Nissen was born 22. January 1761, son of merchant Jens Nissen, but due to financial difficulties he was placed in care of his uncle (his mother’s brother), Vilhad Kristian Zoega, who raised him with his own son, Georg Zoega (1755-1809), who later became an archaeologist and art historian in Rome. He, too, was a student at the University of Copenhagen around 1778. And he, too, lived in Vienna for a time. ...
And by the way, it was not a particular rich uncle. He was a priest...
Can you say when Georg Zoega lived in Vienna? Before or after 1791?Comment
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Hello Hofrat,Originally posted by Hofrat:
Dear Droell;
As I read your theory and your responses to your contesters, I am reminded of a story my father told me about a man hiking in the Black Forest. An hour into his hike, he came across a tree which had a target painted on its trunk, and in the bull's eye of the target was an arrow. He continued his hike and came across another tree with a painted target and an arrow in its bull's eye. As he continued his hike, he came across more and more trees with painted targets and arrows in their bulls' eyes. Finally, the hiker came upon a boy with a bow and a quiver of arrows. The hiker asked if the boy was responsible for this fine feat of archery here in the forest. The young archer admitted that he was. The hiker asked the boy for the secret of his bowmanship and the boy answered, "First I shoot the arrow and then I paint the target around it!!"
It seems to me that you are "painting targets" around the arrows you are shooting.
Hofrat
I am attempting to solve the mystery of Mozart's death. It's been 215 years & it's still just as much as mystery as it's ever been.
An alternative explanation is that he faked his death & fled town. If he did, there should be evidence to support this hypothesis.
Interest has focused on one Georg Nikolaus Nissen. If he is a simple, straightforward Dane, then Mozart's death remains a mystery.
If, on the other hand, Nissen turns out to be a complicated mystery, then we can solve two problems (actually a lot more than two) by declaring these two men to be one & the same & then seeing where that leads us.
We do not learn by repeating the same facts over & over again, especially when those facts - such as those about Mozart's death - do not make a lot of sense anyway. We learn by rearranging the deck chairs, even if this means that otherwise seated individuals must temporarily be made to stand.
Comment
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Droell:
[B]I am back. Old business.
I am back too. And so are you mr Roell doing your old business and now taking me as a hostage in your ramblings.
So once again I have to waste my time trying to correct a few of you most fatal misunderstandings.
First:
You say: "I had to remind myself why I was doing this. And that reason is that Mozart's death is suspicious. I think he faked it, and I think Erik's information tends to help confirm it."
I say: The fact that Mozart's death is suspicious does not in any way support the assumption that he faked it. This is a question of simple logic. A question of what you can and what you cannot deduct from facts. This is your fundamental mistake which leads to a long row of arguments, one more ridiculous than the other.
Second:
You say: "Presumably this story came from "Nissen", one way or another."
No. Not presumbaly and not from Nissen. His birth and later whereabouts are well documented in the Haderslev city archives. He was after all the son of a well known merchant (see below).
Third: "The poor merchant"
This one is actually quite funny. To begin with you misinterpret the term "merchant" and then you procede to stress his finacial problems to a point where he begins to sound like a beggar. He gets poorer and poorer every time you mention him! Let's put this to rest once and for all:
The term "merchant" means "one who makes a living buying and selling goods". Which in those days were known to be risky business. He could be trading wine or timber or whatever, but any shipload of imported goods could go down and ruin a merchant, or at least make his position difficult for a time. Socially the family would still be a part of upper middle or lower upper class in the city. That is why the family chose to send their son away to uncle Zoega. According to archives they did it to ensure a "proper" education of young Georg Nikolaus.
Fourth:
You claim that "Georg Nikolaus Nissen is the ghetto kid from a poor background who made good. He made so good, in fact, that he grew up to marry a famous widow & set about writing the biography of her first husband. Somehow this is not what self-made people usually do. They are usually burning with the desire for their own unique projects & will let nothing, not poverty, not hardship, stand in their way. That's pretty much the only way you escape grinding poverty & the small town life."
This is pure guesswork. GNN was by no means a self-made man working his way out of poverty. His mother's family, the Zoegas, where with him all the way. Uncles and cousins in Copenhagen were always present to help him get a proper position in the upper middle and lower upper class parts of the Danish society (in Copenhagen and elsewhere in Denmark).
Enough for now. I shall turn to your next post and see if there is any more funny logic here...
Comment
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This one should be fairly easy to correct...Originally posted by Droell:
I have questions about Nissen's education, and the languages he spoke.
Haderslev, Denmark, Nissen's birthplace, was earlier the birthplace of two Danish kings, Frederick II & III, the last born in 1609. It is today - or was in 1975, according to my aging reference - a town of about 20,000, located in SE Denmark, not far from the present German border. As I recall, the German border was once further south.
According to Erik, Nissen read law in Copenhagen. This means he was fluent in Latin & Greek. Universities commonly saw to that, and for good reason. The majority of books that could be found in most libraries at the time were in fact in Latin. Publishing in the vernacular (in this case, Danish) was a newfangled idea that seems to have gotten started, in England, at any rate, around the time of the Revolution (1640's). Prior to that, there had been, for several centuries, a most wonderful situation where books, published anywhere in Europe, could be exported, sold, collected & read by any educated man anywhere else in Europe. All sharing the common language of Latin. It is a pity that has disappeared.
So if Nissen is the son of a poor merchant, given out to a priestly uncle for upbringing, living, as they all did, in a homogeneous Danish society, how did he learn German? And what dialect of German did he learn?
High German & Low German only begin to describe the many patois in that area of the world at that time. On the east bank of the Rhine, there was Rhenish. On the west, Alsacienne. Somewhere in between, Wagner's Rhine Maidens with Switzerdeutsch (sp?). (Well, this is a music board!)
There might have been a German colony at that date in Copenhagen, though it strikes me as unlikely. It might be that Vilhad Kristian Zoega's wife was German, although this is also unlikely.
As for language studies at the University, one might ask why? and, how? If people do not ordinarily travel, and if Latin is the definition of a good education, why learn German? And if learning German means reading the language, how is this to be done in the absence of printed German literature? If all serious material is in Latin, that only leaves the cheap penny press in the vulgar tongue. Goethe is coming into prominence at this time, as are a lot of truly excellent German poets, but are they known in Denmark, and does the University pay any attention if they are?
Presuming there's an instructor of German at the University of Copenhagen & presuming that Nissen studies with him, where did that professor come from? Nearby Hamburg? Brandenburg? He's presumably teaching the language as he knows it. He presumably would have used German-language primers, the same as used by German students in German schools in this period. In the absence of real literature, in the absence of other native speakers, how effective was this kind of education? My own experience would suggest it wasn't much.
Mozart, by contrast, grew up on the road. He picks up a smattering of Latin, along with a smattering of Italian, Czech, French, Dutch, Danish & who knows what else.
So one thing that makes Nissen Nissen is if, at the time of his death, one finds a library of Latin books in his possession.
Another thing that will make Nissen Nissen is if the majority of his personal papers are in fluent Danish.
On the other hand, Nissen becomes Mozart if the majority of his papers are in German, especially if that German is of a level of sophistication similar to that found in Mozart's various letters.
I have met many wonderful foreigners in my life. Many with excellent spoken English. Yet with only one exception, they were all virtually illiterate in the written language. Speaking for myself, in my early 20's I learned French & once spoke it fluently. But despite university-level classes, in the US & France, I never wrote it that well.
So under this hypothesis, the Danish Nissen is fluent in Danish but not so much in written German.
The Mozart Nissen is fluent in German, but his written Danish is crude, or shows signs of having been written by some other hand, with only his signature on the document.
Erik's comment that Nissen retired to Denmark to become a censor, a largely ceremonial post, would have been suitable for either Nissen.
I am increasingly curious as to why Nissen left Vienna & resided in Copenhagen for eight years, from 1812 to 1820. The Danish Nissen would have been 51 years old, with some 19 years in the Viennese court. Napoleon at the time was moving an army in & out of Russia. This seems to have been a time when every good diplomatic hand would have been pressed to the max. Fifty-one, at any rate, is not usually thought of as a retirement age. I can invent stories (intrigue, exposed as Mozart, spy scandal, simple weariness) but have no sense of anything.
Did GNN speak German and if so, how did he learn it? Yes he almost certainly did speak German. He was born and grew up in a part of the country where German for centuries has been an alternative language. He grew up with his uncle in Schackenborg which is even closer to the border than Haderslev. Some or many of the townspeople could have been Germans. In Copenhagen in and around the royal court and administration people not only spoke German, some of them didn't even speak Danish, so your "unlikely" German colony in Copenhagen" is anything but "unlikely".
And finally you wonder why he retired at the age of 51. According to the archives (sorry, facts again!) he retired because of serious illness.
Comment
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Originally posted by erk:
This one should be fairly easy to correct...
Did GNN speak German and if so, how did he learn it? Yes he almost certainly did speak German. He was born and grew up in a part of the country where German for centuries has been an alternative language. He grew up with his uncle in Schackenborg which is even closer to the border than Haderslev. Some or many of the townspeople could have been Germans. In Copenhagen in and around the royal court and administration people not only spoke German, some of them didn't even speak Danish, so your "unlikely" German colony in Copenhagen" is anything but "unlikely".
And finally you wonder why he retired at the age of 51. According to the archives (sorry, facts again!) he retired because of serious illness.
I can't see that you've answered my posts. Repetition of accepted facts does not interest me. Analysis will.
We need Nissen's signed, handwritten documents in both fluent Danish & fluent German. Letters will do. Mozart is only capable of one of these. This would seem to be a definitive test.
I am reminded of the recent DNA tests on Mozart's skull, and the comparison to DNA test run on the bones of his blood relatives. Fewer Mozarts were found than expected.
Apologies.Comment
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Close study of the posts under the name of “Droell” reveal an intriguing mystery, which suggests VERY STRONGLY that “Droell” is actually a composite of (at least) two individuals.
For instance, in a post of 03-14-2006 08:26 PM, Droell asserts that “The problem we have is that Constanze's second husband, the Danish ambassador is, in fact, Mozart's identical twin". And again, in a post of 03-15-2006 01:18 PM Droell writes “Someone who looks exactly like Mozart comes to Vienna & marries Mozart's widow.”
As I pointed out in a previous post, these sorts of assertions imply that Mr. David Roell, who (apparently) posts as Droell, knows EXACTLY what Mozart looked like.
Yet, in a post of 03-16-2006 12:26 AM Droell(?) writes “And no, we don't know what Mozart looks like, because the only surviving portraits are of him as a child, or in a family setting.”
So there appear to be two different people posting as Droell. (1) Someone, whom I will call Droell A, who knows the exact appearance of Mozart, presumably as a result of super-natural revelation of some sort. He uses this knowledge to assert that Nissen is none other than Mozart. (2) Someone, Droell B, who admits that we DON’T KNOW WHAT MOZART LOOKS LIKE. He then uses this to implicate Constanze and Nissen/Mozart in this obfuscation.
What unites Droell A and Droell B is that they both believe that Mozart and Nissen are the same person. But it is clear that in other ways their assertions are incompatible, indeed diametrically opposed. I take this to be clear proof that we are dealing with different people.
But, hide-bound unthinking conservatives might object to my discovery by pointing out that surely the true David Roell would have complained about the false pseudo-Roell. To which I would reply “How do you know he hasn’t complained? All we know is that there is no written evidence that he has”. Which of course might only mean that his complaints have been suppressed by what is clearly a powerful conspiracy to cover up the existence of multiple Droells.
Who is then the true David Roell? I’m afraid the situation is too complex to offer a simple solution. A conspiracy might very well have invented BOTH Droells. The existence of a site called “Astrology Center of America”, apparently owned by David R. Roell, is no evidence to the contrary – that site is possibly part of the same conspiracy. The photo of (allegedly) David R. Roell, on that site, is of
course absolutely no proof that he actually looks like that. In any case, I see many people every week who look suspiciously like the person in the photo.
Once my suspicions had been aroused on this point, other suspicions began to arise.
The remarkable way in which Constanze and Mozart/Nissen apparently managed to totally hoodwink so many intelligent and knowledgeable people of their time suggests that they were people of remarkable abilities. I suggest that they perhaps managed to find the cure for mortality. Not only did Mozart not die in 1791, but the “reincarnated” Nissen/Mozart didn’t die later either, and neither did Constanze. I suggest that, sadly, after centuries of marriage, their relationship began to get a bit stale, and they fell out. Constanze emigrated to Australia, and has recently written her supposed biography, using the pseudonym “Agnes Selby”. Meanwhile, Mozart/Nissen emigrated to the USA, and took the name "David R. Roell".
I haven’t as yet determined which particular powerful group is responsible for the conspiracy to cover up this momentous discovery of the elixir of life. HaydnFan pointed out that I hadn’t included “Wal-Mart” in my list of potential conspirators. I must admit that they hadn’t occurred to me as likely conspirators in this – but that may only mean that they are even more secretive and subtle in their control of the media, academia, governments, the UN etc. than such groups as Opus Dei. On the principle that “there is no smoke without fire”, I accept HaydnFan’s suggestion.
Of course, it will, regrettably, take a LOT of work to disprove my thesis. I advise anyone not to bother, because you won’t be able to do so.
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So, Droell, you are saying that facts do not interest you...so only the twisting of fact to support some type of backwards or incomprehensible and weak argument seem to interest you.
I for one, feel that facts are more powerful than theories without foundation.Comment
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Dear Droell;
I have *The Mozart Handbook*, a guide to the man and his music compiled and edited by Louis Biancolli. It is over 600 pages of information on Mozart. I looked for Nissen and found some a few interesting things.
In early 1825 while at work on his biography of Mozart, Nissen wrote to Sophie Haibel, a sister-in-law of Mozart, for information on the composer's last days. Now if Mozart was Nissen, why would he need to ask about the last days? According to you, he was there. Anything that Sophie witnessed, so did he.
In 1798, Constanze published Mozart's piano concerto in C-major K.503 out of her own pocket. Helping her with the negotiations with the publishers was Nissen. I would think that the publishers would have recognized that Nissen was Mozart. It was only a few years from the death of Mozart.
The portrait of Mozart that you use in your proof dates from 1783 and it is unfinished. How can you use it to compare it with the portrait of Nissen?
Hofrat
"Is it not strange that sheep guts should hale souls out of men's bodies?"Comment
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Hello Frank,Originally posted by Frank H:
Close study of the posts under the name of “Droell” reveal an intriguing mystery, which suggests VERY STRONGLY that “Droell” is actually a composite of (at least) two individuals.
Of course, it will, regrettably, take a LOT of work to disprove my thesis. I advise anyone not to bother, because you won’t be able to do so.
I am not the subject of this, but since you ask:
Please give us the definitive answer to Mozart's death.
[This message has been edited by Droell (edited 03-20-2006).]Comment
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Answer: He needed a story he could print in his nearly finished biography. He needed to nail down precisely this point.Originally posted by Hofrat:
Dear Droell;
In early 1825 while at work on his biography of Mozart, Nissen wrote to Sophie Haibel, a sister-in-law of Mozart, for information on the composer's last days. Now if Mozart was Nissen, why would he need to ask about the last days? According to you, he was there. Anything that Sophie witnessed, so did he.
My question to you: Why did her eyewitness account not match that of the medical examiner?
It was seven years later. Did Mozart conduct his affairs in person, or by post? If in person, how often? Did he deal with the same persons, or did staff change? Why was Nissen dealing with this, anyway? Seems to me that Constanze would be a better choice. She had seen Mozart in his dealings, she would be familiar with the ins & outs of the music biz. She strikes me as one pretty shrewd lady.
In 1798, Constanze published Mozart's piano concerto in C-major K.503 out of her own pocket. Helping her with the negotiations with the publishers was Nissen. I would think that the publishers would have recognized that Nissen was Mozart. It was only a few years from the death of Mozart.
Beethoven had various problems with publishers. One that happened several times was that publishers would edit his pieces, inserting extraneous matter. Since it's been said that neither Constanze nor Nissen could read music, what the heck is going on here?
I, myself, publish books. These are all reprints of old books, I do not claim to have written any of them myself. I, myself, am about to send my 17th book to the printers. If I don't know how to read English, I will not know if the proof that comes back is good or bad. For that matter, if I lack the specialized knowledge as used in the book, it won't do me any good if I can read it. Specialized material for a specialized book makes for specialized demands on the person arranging publication, eg, me.
It has been determined that neither Constanze Mozart nor Georg Nissen had the necessary musical knowledge to undertake publication of Mozart's surviving scores, since they were unable to read music!
If you want to know how this is done, when the proof arrives, it is taken to the piano, where two sit (since this is an orchestral score). They play the score as printed, while someone else carefully checks against the original manuscript.
Anyone can give a stack of handwritten notes to a printer, but what comes back will not be "published" until it has been carefully checked. So what significant role could Nissen play in this?
Take one giant step back from the portraits & ask yourself why there are zero portraits of Mozart, by himself, as an adult? There should be half a dozen in Prague alone. That incomplete painting is of Mozart in a group, the actual size of Mozart's head is probably not much bigger than what appears on my website.
The portrait of Mozart that you use in your proof dates from 1783 and it is unfinished. How can you use it to compare it with the portrait of Nissen?
You're not curious that ALL the surviving portraits of Mozart are as a child, or as a member of a family group?
[This message has been edited by Droell (edited 03-20-2006).]Comment
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Well, you asked for it!Originally posted by Droell:
Hello Frank,
I am not the subject of this, but since you ask:
Please give us the definitive answer to Mozart's death.
Or please leave the arena.
I repeat:
"The remarkable way in which Constanze and Mozart/Nissen apparently managed to totally hoodwink so many intelligent and knowledgeable people of their time suggests that they were people of remarkable abilities. I suggest that they perhaps managed to find the cure for mortality. Not only did Mozart not die in 1791, but the “reincarnated” Nissen/Mozart didn’t die later either, and neither did Constanze. I suggest that, sadly, after centuries of marriage, their relationship began to get a bit stale, and they fell out. Constanze emigrated to Australia, and has recently written her supposed biography, using the pseudonym “Agnes Selby”. Meanwhile, Mozart/Nissen emigrated to the USA, and took the name "David R. Roell".
I haven’t as yet determined which particular powerful group is responsible for the conspiracy to cover up this momentous discovery of the elixir of life. HaydnFan pointed out that I hadn’t included “Wal-Mart” in my list of potential conspirators. I must admit that they hadn’t occurred to me as likely conspirators in this – but that may only mean that they are even more secretive and subtle in their control of the media, academia, governments, the UN etc. than such groups as Opus Dei. On the principle that “there is no smoke without fire”, I accept HaydnFan’s suggestion.
Of course, it will, regrettably, take a LOT of work to disprove my thesis. I advise anyone not to bother, because you won’t be able to do so."
Incidentally, only Chris and Peter, as far as I am aware, have the right to ask anyone to "leave the arena". So, unless...
Which leads me to another suspicion. Where is Chris? Does he exist? Does Wal-Mart have shares in the Beethoven reference forum?
[As for Danes and Germans, it is clear that Droell, or one version of Droell, underplays the very close tie-up between Scandinavia and Germany which existed right up to well into the nineteenth century. Some of the leading German artists (e.g. Friedrich) actually preferred to go to Copenhagen to study rather than to a German city. The tie-up with Denmark was especially close. The German province of Schleswig-Holstein was actually part of Denmark at the time. Danish-speaking German and German-speaking Danish communities exist to this day]
[This message has been edited by Frank H (edited 03-20-2006).]Comment
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