Back to Beethoven

[JA Gardiner]

Is anyone else out there up for the novel idea that discussion on the Beethoven reference site might actually be primarily about Beethoven and his music (the WAYLTN thread naturally excepted)? It seems to be rather dominated at present by several extremely lengthy threads which appear to be being used as a forum for one member to air their theories on Mozart in a way that appears to be excluding all but a handful of members from contributing. The Mozart forum would appear to be the most appropriate setting for this discussion - though a recent post seems to suggest that it is not altogether welcome there either - I don't feel that this or any other discussion board should become an alternative form of academic vanity publishing and I'm finding the tone of some of the recent posts re the "Jesuit conspiracy" slightly disturbing - and I don't mean in a good way. I'll understand Chris/Peter if you feel this belongs more appropriately in the comments section and have no wish to offend anyone, but I thought I should say how I feel rather than just drop off this forum, which I enjoy hugely and learn a lot from, without speaking up. There may be other members who feel similarly.

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Beethoven the Man!

[This message has been edited by JA Gardiner (edited 02-15-2006).]

[robert newman]

I entirely agree. How about giving us some really informative and interesting posts on Ludwig van Beethoven ?

Robert Newman

[Rutradelusasa]

I too agree that this forum, which I love <*makes Hattori Hanzo face*>, has been hijacked a long time ago. The discussion itself has passed through the Mozart Forum, the Classical@yahoogroups and I don't know of other places. I don't open such threads anymore.
Just don't.

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"Wer ein holdes weib errugen..."

[This message has been edited by Rutradelusasa (edited 02-15-2006).]

[Droell]

Well, I put up a post on Mozart's death, it was followed by pork chops, and after that, a week went by when you could hear a pin drop. Pork chops were silly & I could have pushed that thread along, but let it rest.

If there's been no interesting threads about Ludwig, it's because no one's had anything much to say of late. It might also be that everyone is waiting for someone else to go first.

Okay.

Busts of Beethoven. There is the famous one taken from the life mask, around 1812, but somehow one rarely sees reproductions of it. Instead there is some other popular bust. Fatter cheeks it has. Does anyone know when or where that bust was first made?

[robert newman]

Well said Droell ! It's like a person with 500 televisions asking when the tennis show will end and suggesting (popcorn in hand) if it can be changed - by someone other than themselves. But we live in an age of immediate expectation of gratification.

I hope my postings on Mozart (and a good number of interesting comments by others on the same subjects) have not entirely caused a seizure amongst those who wish to exclusively post (or is it consume ?) on the great Beethoven. My stimulus in posting is not 'vanity' but a sincere wish to share and to have criticised recent findings on many issues during this 'Mozart' year - ranging as you can see from the music education of the young Beethoven at Bonn to Mozart's impacts on musical history - something quite rarely done freely.

But Mr Gardiner has spared me a lot of time and effort. Please understand I hope he is not offended at two or even more simultaneous threads.

I like Droell's posts. They are things from which I can learn. So posting is a two way process and I for one do not forget it.

Regards

Robert Newman

[Peter]

Originally posted by robert newman:

I entirely agree. How about giving us some really informative and interesting posts on Ludwig van Beethoven ?

Robert Newman

Every week courtesy of Rod mp3s are posted -more feedback on that thread would be welcome!


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'Man know thyself'

[JA Gardiner]

Originally posted by Peter:
Every week courtesy of Rod mp3s are posted -more feedback on that thread would be welcome!

Couldn't agree more - as I am not a music specialist I find Rod's MP3s and the comments on them extremely interesting and educative increasing my understanding and appreciation of "the Boss"'s work. This is the sort of thing I come to the site for and I contribute as I am able. I will not jump to the bait in a couple of the responses on this thread save to say that I think their tone illustrates my point and I agree with my old friend Rutradelusasa. And for the record its Ms. Gardiner...

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Beethoven the Man!

[Rod]

Originally posted by JA Gardiner:

Couldn't agree more - as I am not a music specialist I find Rod's MP3s and the comments on them extremely interesting and educative increasing my understanding and appreciation of "the Boss"'s work. This is the sort of thing I come to the site for and I contribute as I am able. I will not jump to the bait in a couple of the responses on this thread save to say that I think their tone illustrates my point and I agree with my old friend Rutradelusasa. And for the record its Ms. Gardiner...

And it's not just Mozart either. The original idea of the mp3 threads was that they would act as a focal point to discuss each piece of music, and not exclusively the mp3 performance of it. By and large the response has been poor, even pieces like the Hammerklavier raise little attention, and now we are comming towards the end to this project which will not be repeated (by me at least).


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 02-16-2006).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Rod:
By and large the response has been poor, even pieces like the Hammerklavier raise little attention....

To illustrate further, the Op106 mp3 link got 8 responses, the op111 got 3 (though I thank those who made the effort to respond), meanwhile the 'Rachmaninov v's Chopin' link got 33. I could go on and on.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 02-16-2006).]

[robert newman]

I sincerely hope Ms Gardiner (who admits to learning a great deal) can sympathise with the problem caused by her first post here (in which she considers whether it would have been more appropriate to have posted her views in the comments section). But she took the brave step and now at least I know she is a lady.

Tone is something I am equally interested in Ms Gardiner. This with the desire not simply to learn, but to use what I learn, and to never stop learning. One cannot sharply define what the relationship must be between an audience and a composer, since one must assume that there is a two-way process - or at least one must assume that an audience exists. You raise the interesting possibility that in my case it does not. So you see how your post has taught me ?

Honestly, having a great deal of information available on Mozart in particular I was pleased by the chance to post on it here since topics relating to Beethoven (on which I have posted here in the last 8 hours) and also those on 'classical music in general' are equally valid here.

But your own reluctance to post is as much a loss as mine to post too much.

Best regards

RN

[HaydnFan]

I agree both with Ms. Gardiner and Droell. On one hand, the Mozart posts have gotten way out of hand on this board. But then again, as you said Droell, this board is sometimes like a ghost town so if it takes Mozart to spice it up, then so be it!

[Rod]

Originally posted by robert newman:


But your own reluctance to post is as much a loss as mine to post too much.

Best regards

RN

I am very interested in Handel but i only make passing comments on this here. The solution was to start my own Handel site, which you are welcome to join (see my profile for the url). There is a time and a place for everything, but this place should not lose its primary focus.



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Joy]

Originally posted by HaydnFan:
I agree both with Ms. Gardiner and Droell. On one hand, the Mozart posts have gotten way out of hand on this board. But then again, as you said Droell, this board is sometimes like a ghost town so if it takes Mozart to spice it up, then so be it!

And spiced it up it has! I know a few people enjoyed the heated debate that was going on.



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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Droell]

Originally posted by Peter:
Every week courtesy of Rod mp3s are posted -more feedback on that thread would be welcome!

Hello Peter,

I tried one of those a few weeks back. First there was the hassle with passwords, which I hate.

Then I was surprised to find a performance by Roger Norrington. Norrington does a great Brahms, but for Beethoven he's a clown. I tried to make myself like him back 15 years ago, bought a bunch of his CD's, etc. Everyone who commented on that post thinks he's wonderful.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Droell:

Then I was surprised to find a performance by Roger Norrington. Norrington does a great Brahms, but for Beethoven he's a clown. I tried to make myself like him back 15 years ago, bought a bunch of his CD's, etc. Everyone who commented on that post thinks he's wonderful.

You're either referring to the mp3 of Symphony no2 or no8, as I used Norrington's CD of these. In both cases the performances are as good as anything you'll find so I don't really understand your 'clown' reference (though I don't think everything of his I've heard is necessarily so good). Do you have this CD of Norrington's

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 02-16-2006).]