Countess Anna-Marie Erdody

[The Master]

Hello Beethoven buffs everywhere - I need help in my research. I have studied Beethoven for over 35 years, however I cannot find out what happened to Anna Marie Erdody.I found a sketchy source that suggested she was investigated by the Austrian secret police of the day, regarding the mysterious death of one of her children,although another source suggests she had a lover who may have been involved? - I know she is buried in Schaftlan in Bavaria Germany. Can anyone help me out with any information please ?

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by The Master:
Hello Beethoven buffs everywhere - I need help in my research. I have studied Beethoven for over 35 years, however I cannot find out what happened to Anna Marie Erdody.I found a sketchy source that suggested she was investigated by the Austrian secret police of the day, regarding the mysterious death of one of her children,although another source suggests she had a lover who may have been involved? - I know she is buried in Schaftlan in Bavaria Germany. Can anyone help me out with any information please ?

Well, her house on Castle Hill in Budapest is now the Music Museum of Hungary and houses the Bartok Archives. Beethoven spent the night there on 7 May 1800 after performing at the Castle Theater with the horn player Punti.


Hofrat

[Peter]

Countess Erdody’s health though by now had deteriorated even more. She was confined to her bed for weeks at a time and she apparently had become addicted to opium to alleviate her pain. But her problems did not end there. For soon in 1820 her daughter, Mimi, had attempted suicide from an overdose of opium available to her from the Countess' own use. Mimi was put in a convent for religious training as required by Austrian law. And most likely the Countess' estates were taken from her. She was also brought in for questioning by the police. Her sister-in-law, Countess Sigismond von Erdody, who was widow to the brother of Countess Erdody’s husband, brought charges against Countess Erdody that her tutor Brauchle had had sexual intimacy with her daughter, that the Countess had provoked Mimi’s attempted suicide, that Countess Erdody did not even dress her daughter in the manner accorded a countess, and that Countess Erdody had squandered Erdody money and property. Countess Sigismond also demanded that her niece (Mimi) be freed from the custody of her mother.

Brauchle was questioned by the police. Countess Sigismond also accused him of beating Countess Erdody’s son to death in 1816 and implied she (Countess Marie Erdody) may have also contributed to her son’s death. Countess Erdody pleaded not guilty, both for herself and Brauchle. She stated there was no truth to her sister-in-laws accusations. And in a petition to the Prefect of the Police on June 29, 1820, she begs that “in all fairness and kindness the judgment be set aside that Brauchle may not be released from prison before her daughter had left her house,” And she goes on to point out (from Marek)

....such a judgment constitutes a dreadful offense against my own and my daughter’s honor; everybody would, quite naturally, jump to the conclusion that an affair was going on between Brauchle and my daughter, and that the High Police Bureau... had -- partly to protect the ailing mother -- assumed the task of ending the affair by force..... Was it not hard to rob a human being of her holiest possession, her honor, just because she found herself in a state of human confusion, intending no evil? As to the question of the maintenance of my daughter in a style commensurate with her station, I assure you that you need not be concerned with it, nor trouble a mother’s heart with such impugnation. (To the charges of wasting Erdody money she stated.) Some time ago when both my husband and my father refused me any financial support I was capable of making things with my hands, sell them to a shop here, and bring up my children decently. It is many years since I or my children have received the slightest financial support from the shaken fortune of my husband ....I have been able not only to bring my father’s possessions, once robbed of livestock and furnishings, by the provisions of his testament, into a flourishing state but was successful even in paying off most of the debts which my father left, using that part of the Erdody fortune which is my right due by marriage.

According to Altman, Gunther Haupt, a researcher, who studied these events concluded that Countess Sigismond's motives included removing Countess Erdody from the guardianship of her daughter so that she herself could secure Mimi as a wife for her son and thus gain control over the Countess' estate.

The matter with the Countess now becomes even more confusing. In 1822 she returned to Croatia briefly where she had inherited property from an uncle of her husband’s. There were rumors and police reports stating a castle had been stormed by its manager with her approval since the uncle insisted upon throwing the Countess Erdody from his property.

Countess Erdody is thought to have returned to Vienna in the fall of 1823 for at this time Beethoven moved back to the Landstrasse where the Countess had made her residence. And around this time Beethoven now took up his work on the ninth symphony with such a passion that Schindler said, “....he even grudged himself occasional recreation.”

On her return from Croatia the Countess had begun writing letters for her daughter’s release from the convent. But now the Countess Sigismond again brought charges against Countess Erdody that she had smuggled in a young actor by the name of Walthur into Vienna. Countess Erdody asked for clemency, because she took pity on the young man since he was the sole support of his old parents and it was only due to the wretched state of her health that she took pleasure in his (Walthur’s) reading to her.

Finally Countess Erdody was successful in releasing her daughter from the convent. And in the early part of 1824 she left with her daughter for Munich. Whether this was due to an agreement or a stipulation by the Erdody family for her to regain guardianship of her daughter is not known. Perhaps too Countess Erdody had not been successful in her manager’s siege of the castle and the Erdody’s were compelling her to leave the Austrian Empire with her daughter since they now had control of the estates that the government had wrested from her due to her daughter’s suicide.

But the Countess' health by this time was nothing short of catastrophic. On her passport renewal applied for in 1825, the doctor stated that she was suffering from asthmatic pains, accompanied by blood-spitting and a sort of a delirium, her nervous system was completely out of order, and nothing but opium or some drug could soothe her (Altman). Herr Brauchle and his wife joined the countess in Munich in 1830. Countess Erdody died in Munich in 1837.


------------------
'Man know thyself'

[The Master]

What a fantastic quick response,may I thank-you so much.
As the master said "From the heart may it go to the heart."

I am delighted,this information has filled many unanswered questions for me.
Any other info would be gratefully read,has anyone seen a photograph of the Countess's grave? -

[Laurenticwave]

I am truly awed at your knowledge - and at your generosity in sharing it so freely.

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by The Master:
What a fantastic quick response,may I thank-you so much.
As the master said "From the heart may it go to the heart."

I am delighted,this information has filled many unanswered questions for me.
Any other info would be gratefully read,has anyone seen a photograph of the Countess's grave? -

Sorry, but her grave does not appear on the "Find a Grave" Website.


Hofrat

[The Master]

Hofrat[/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks Hofrat,maybe its listed somewhere, it would be interesting to find out. I will have to wear my detective hat ! lol.


[This message has been edited by The Master (edited 12-09-2005).]

[Megan]

Countess Erdody’s health though by now had deteriorated even more. She was confined to her bed for weeks at a time and she apparently had become addicted to opium to alleviate her pain. But her problems did not end there. For soon in 1820 her daughter, Mimi, had attempted suicide from an overdose of opium available to her from the Countess' own use. Mimi was put in a convent for religious training as required by Austrian law. And most likely the Countess' estates were taken from her. She was also brought in for questioning by the police. Her sister-in-law, Countess Sigismond von Erdody, who was widow to the brother of Countess Erdody’s husband, brought charges against Countess Erdody that her tutor Brauchle had had sexual intimacy with her daughter, that the Countess had provoked Mimi’s attempted suicide, that Countess Erdody did not even dress her daughter in the manner accorded a countess, and that Countess Erdody had squandered Erdody money and property. Countess Sigismond also demanded that her niece (Mimi) be freed from the custody of her mother.

Brauchle was questioned by the police. Countess Sigismond also accused him of beating Countess Erdody’s son to death in 1816 and implied she (Countess Marie Erdody) may have also contributed to her son’s death. Countess Erdody pleaded not guilty, both for herself and Brauchle. She stated there was no truth to her sister-in-laws accusations. And in a petition to the Prefect of the Police on June 29, 1820, she begs that “in all fairness and kindness the judgment be set aside that Brauchle may not be released from prison before her daughter had left her house,” And she goes on to point out (from Marek)

....such a judgment constitutes a dreadful offense against my own and my daughter’s honor; everybody would, quite naturally, jump to the conclusion that an affair was going on between Brauchle and my daughter, and that the High Police Bureau... had -- partly to protect the ailing mother -- assumed the task of ending the affair by force..... Was it not hard to rob a human being of her holiest possession, her honor, just because she found herself in a state of human confusion, intending no evil? As to the question of the maintenance of my daughter in a style commensurate with her station, I assure you that you need not be concerned with it, nor trouble a mother’s heart with such impugnation. (To the charges of wasting Erdody money she stated.) Some time ago when both my husband and my father refused me any financial support I was capable of making things with my hands, sell them to a shop here, and bring up my children decently. It is many years since I or my children have received the slightest financial support from the shaken fortune of my husband ....I have been able not only to bring my father’s possessions, once robbed of livestock and furnishings, by the provisions of his testament, into a flourishing state but was successful even in paying off most of the debts which my father left, using that part of the Erdody fortune which is my right due by marriage.

According to Altman, Gunther Haupt, a researcher, who studied these events concluded that Countess Sigismond's motives included removing Countess Erdody from the guardianship of her daughter so that she herself could secure Mimi as a wife for her son and thus gain control over the Countess' estate.

The matter with the Countess now becomes even more confusing. In 1822 she returned to Croatia briefly where she had inherited property from an uncle of her husband’s. There were rumors and police reports stating a castle had been stormed by its manager with her approval since the uncle insisted upon throwing the Countess Erdody from his property.

Countess Erdody is thought to have returned to Vienna in the fall of 1823 for at this time Beethoven moved back to the Landstrasse where the Countess had made her residence. And around this time Beethoven now took up his work on the ninth symphony with such a passion that Schindler said, “....he even grudged himself occasional recreation.”

On her return from Croatia the Countess had begun writing letters for her daughter’s release from the convent. But now the Countess Sigismond again brought charges against Countess Erdody that she had smuggled in a young actor by the name of Walthur into Vienna. Countess Erdody asked for clemency, because she took pity on the young man since he was the sole support of his old parents and it was only due to the wretched state of her health that she took pleasure in his (Walthur’s) reading to her.

Finally Countess Erdody was successful in releasing her daughter from the convent. And in the early part of 1824 she left with her daughter for Munich. Whether this was due to an agreement or a stipulation by the Erdody family for her to regain guardianship of her daughter is not known. Perhaps too Countess Erdody had not been successful in her manager’s siege of the castle and the Erdody’s were compelling her to leave the Austrian Empire with her daughter since they now had control of the estates that the government had wrested from her due to her daughter’s suicide.

But the Countess' health by this time was nothing short of catastrophic. On her passport renewal applied for in 1825, the doctor stated that she was suffering from asthmatic pains, accompanied by blood-spitting and a sort of a delirium, her nervous system was completely out of order, and nothing but opium or some drug could soothe her (Altman). Herr Brauchle and his wife joined the countess in Munich in 1830. Countess Erdody died in Munich in 1837.


------------------
'Man know thyself'

I was reading this fascinating account of the tragic Countess Erdody's life and her son and daughter.
Does anyone know where the family grave may be?

[Peter]

I was reading this fascinating account of the tragic Countess Erdody's life and her son and daughter.
Does anyone know where the family grave may be?

Well she died in Munich, but the family estate was at Pancovecz [now Popovača] near Zagreb in Croatia.

[AeolianHarp]

It is sad what happened to Marie Erdody- she was very kind to Beethoven.