Therese Von Brunsvik and Immortal beloved

[Tashibabes]

Does anybody know the relationship between Beethoven and Therese Von Brunsvik? I know that Beethoven had a bit of a thing for Josephine....but there have been recent claims that it was the other sister. Anyone care to shed some light?
I know the thing with the immortal beloved is said to be Antoine B...but is this totally certain?

[Peter]

I think there can be no doubt that though Beethoven was fond of Therese, it was her sister Josephine who his greatest affections were reserved for. Therese wrote in her diary 12 July 1817 : 'Josephine must suffer remorse on account of Luigi's sorrow - his wife ! What could she not have made of this hero !'

and much later on 4th Feb 1846:
'...Beethoven! It seems like a dream that he was the friend, the intimate of our house - a stupendous spirit! Why did not my sister J., as the widow Deym, accept him as her husband ? She would have been much happier than she was with St[ackelberg]. Maternal love caused her to forgo her own happiness.'

It isn't certain, but I think Antonie Brentano seems the most likely candidate for the Immortal beloved.

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'Man know thyself'

[AlteGrafin]

Therese was put forth as a candidate by Thayer mainly because he misdated the letters to the I.B. She is no longer considered a "contender." But then, neither should Solomon's "solution," Antonie Brentano. If one looks at the primary source material Solomon quotes to "prove" his theory, one finds gross mistranslations, quotes taken out of context, and other violations of proper historical reporting. Frau Brentano certainly does not fit the "profile" of the Beloved psychologically, and her other qualifications are dubious at best. If she was the I.B., then her husband, Franz, was no doubt the stupidest man in all of Vienna.
Never, never believe anything Solomon writes unless you double-check his sources. Believe me, it will be an eye-opener if you do.

[PDG]

Originally posted by AlteGrafin:
[B] Antonie Brentano..........If she was the I.B., then her husband, Franz, was no doubt the stupidest man in all of Vienna.
B]

Why?

[Rod]

Originally posted by AlteGrafin:
. If she was the I.B., then her husband, Franz, was no doubt the stupidest man in all of Vienna.
Never, never believe anything Solomon writes unless you double-check his sources. Believe me, it will be an eye-opener if you do.

I've said much the same about Franz myself in the past, in the same context! I've made a career out of casting doubt (to put it mildly) about Solomon's writing, but only a year or two ago such behaviour was total heresy - people thought I was mad! S wasn't an American by any chance AG?

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[PDG]

Originally posted by Rod:
I've said much the same about Franz myself in the past, in the same context!

Why?

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:
Why?

It's all birds and bees type stuff PDG, not sure you're ready for it yet.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 02-22-2002).]

[PDG]

Oh, I don't know about that - if Beethoven were shagging my other half, I'd feel honoured!!

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:
Oh, I don't know about that - if Beethoven were shagging my other half, I'd feel honoured!!

You'd feel honoured if ANYONE were shagging your other half!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[PDG]

That's not very nice. Sounds a bit like jealousy to me.

"Rod the Prod" you never have been,
But as "Peter O'Tool" I rule the scene.

[Chris]

I can't think of anything to get us off this ridiculous line of conversation. I therefore present to you a dancing monkey.



[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 02-22-2002).]

[Joy]

Originally posted by Chris:
I can't think of anything to get us off this ridiculous line of conversation. I therefore present to you a dancing monkey.



[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 02-22-2002).]

Where on earth did you find your dancing monkey? Hilarious! Does he work for peanuts? Ha!

[Claudie MICAULT]

Originally posted by Chris:
I can't think of anything to get us off this ridiculous line of conversation. I therefore present to you a dancing monkey.



[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 02-22-2002).]

It is simply fantastic !!!



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Claudie

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:
That's not very nice. Sounds a bit like jealousy to me.

How can you say this when, short of anything interesting to say, you dishonour Beethoven and your own 'other half' in public?

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chris]

Originally posted by Joy:

Where on earth did you find your dancing monkey? Hilarious! Does he work for peanuts? Ha!

He's more of a banana man, actually.