question: equale

[sjwenger]

What is an equale? (What are equali?)
Naxos has 3 Beethoven equali WoO on their site.

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by sjwenger:
What is an equale? (What are equali?)
Naxos has 3 Beethoven equali WoO on their site.

The instruments used. I assume we are talking about Beethoven's Equali, which are written for 4 trombones.


Hofrat

[Peter]

Equali are short pieces usually for a quartet of trombones played at funerals. Beethoven's (which are wonderful) were played at his own funeral and Gladstone's in 1898.

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'Man know thyself'

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by sjwenger:
What is an equale? (What are equali?)
Naxos has 3 Beethoven equali WoO on their site.

If I was not clear, an equale (plural is equali) is a composition for like instruments. In Beethoven's case, he wrote for 4 trombones as was the tradition in Linz where he wrote his 3 equali.

BTW, I have good reason to believe that there might be a 4th equali, for 6 trombones, somewhere is an obscure archive in Linz. More on that later.


Hofrat

[Joy]

Beethoven's are indeed wonderful! Here's some background: "The Drei Equali is a work written for trombones in a form that evolved from Renaissance pieces written for equal voices. Characterized by their solemn nature, equali were frequently performed at funerals and similar ceremonies. The equale is especially important, not only as a genre in itself, but for its influence on the use of trombones in the symphony orchestra." Beethoven's equali were written in 1812 and performed at his funeral in 1827.

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Joy:
The equale is especially important, not only as a genre in itself, but for its influence on the use of trombones in the symphony orchestra." Beethoven's equali were written in 1812 and performed at his funeral in 1827.

Joy;

It takes about 2 minutes to play the 3 Equali one after the other. It is difficult for me to see how they influenced Beethoven's symphonic writing. He had already scored trombones into his 5th and 6th symphonies in 1808. No trombones in the 7th or 8th. Beethoven returns the trombones in the 9th symphony in 1824.

So, just where do the Equali influence the symphonies??


Hofrat

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Hofrat:
BTW, I have good reason to believe that there might be a 4th equali, for 6 trombones, somewhere is an obscure archive in Linz. More on that later.

In Thayer we find:
"Franz Gloeggl (1796-1872) was 15 years of age and living with his father, Franz Xaver Gloeggl (1764-1839), in Linz. Shortly before his death in 1872 he wrote his reminiscenes of Beethoven.

"Beethoven was on intimate terms of friendship with my father, the Kapellmeister of the cathedral of Linz, and when he was there in 1812, he was at our house every evening and took meals with us. My father asked him for an equale for 6 trombones, as in his collection of old instruments he had a soprano and a quart trombone, whereas only alto, tenor and bass trombones were commonly used. Beethoven wanted to hear an equale such as was played at funerals in Linz, and one afternoon when Beethoven was expected to dine with us, my father appointed 3 trombone players and had them play an equale as desired, after which Beethoven sat down and composed one for 6 trombones, which my father had his trombonists play."

The elder Gloeggl wrote to Robert Schumann in reply to a request of information in 1838:

"I knew Beethoven and his brothers.... I got to know him as a high minded, refined, kind hearted, unpretentious man; the two brothers as wretched human beings.... He also wrote me several funeral pieces for trombones, of which I gave some to my friend Tobias Haslinger in Vienna, of which one was performed at Beethoven's funeral. He wrote them in my room, and of them, I kept one for myself."

Now, Haslinger received from Gloeggl senior the 3 Equali that we know as WoO 30. All 3 of these Equali are score for 4 trombones. Gloeggl kept the 6-trombone equale for himself. So, where is it?? I believe it is in some archive in Linz!!


Hofrat

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Hofrat:
BTW, I have good reason to believe that there might be a 4th equali, for 6 trombones, somewhere is an obscure archive in Linz. More on that later.

In Thayer we find:
"Franz Gloeggl (1796-1872) was 15 years of age and living with his father, Franz Xaver Gloeggl (1764-1839), in Linz. Shortly before his death in 1872 he wrote his reminiscenes of Beethoven.

"Beethoven was on intimate terms of friendship with my father, the Kapellmeister of the cathedral of Linz, and when he was there in 1812, he was at our house every evening and took meals with us. My father asked him for an equale for 6 trombones, as in his collection of old instruments he had a soprano and a quart trombone, whereas only alto, tenor and bass trombones were commonly used. Beethoven wanted to hear an equale such as was played at funerals in Linz, and one afternoon when Beethoven was expected to dine with us, my father appointed 3 trombone players and had them play an equale as desired, after which Beethoven sat down and composed one for 6 trombones, which my father had his trombonists play."

The elder Gloeggl wrote to Robert Schumann in reply to a request of information in 1838:

"I knew Beethoven and his brothers.... I got to know him as a high minded, refined, kind hearted, unpretentious man; the two brothers as wretched human beings.... He also wrote me several funeral pieces for trombones, of which I gave some to my friend Tobias Haslinger in Vienna, of which one was performed at Beethoven's funeral. He wrote them in my room, and of them, I kept one for myself."

Now, Haslinger received from Gloeggl senior the 3 Equali that we know as WoO 30. All 3 of these Equali are score for 4 trombones. Gloeggl kept the 6-trombone equale for himself. So, where is it?? I believe it is in some archive in Linz!!


Hofrat

[Roehre]

In Thayer we find:
"Franz Gloeggl (1796-1872) was 15 years of age and living with his father, Franz Xaver Gloeggl (1764-1839), in Linz. Shortly before his death in 1872 he wrote his reminiscenes of Beethoven.

"Beethoven was on intimate terms of friendship with my father, the Kapellmeister of the cathedral of Linz, and when he was there in 1812, he was at our house every evening and took meals with us. My father asked him for an equale for 6 trombones, as in his collection of old instruments he had a soprano and a quart trombone, whereas only alto, tenor and bass trombones were commonly used. Beethoven wanted to hear an equale such as was played at funerals in Linz, and one afternoon when Beethoven was expected to dine with us, my father appointed 3 trombone players and had them play an equale as desired, after which Beethoven sat down and composed one for 6 trombones, which my father had his trombonists play."

The elder Gloeggl wrote to Robert Schumann in reply to a request of information in 1838:

"I knew Beethoven and his brothers.... I got to know him as a high minded, refined, kind hearted, unpretentious man; the two brothers as wretched human beings.... He also wrote me several funeral pieces for trombones, of which I gave some to my friend Tobias Haslinger in Vienna, of which one was performed at Beethoven's funeral. He wrote them in my room, and of them, I kept one for myself."

Now, Haslinger received from Gloeggl senior the 3 Equali that we know as WoO 30. All 3 of these Equali are score for 4 trombones. Gloeggl kept the 6-trombone equale for himself. So, where is it?? I believe it is in some archive in Linz!! Hofrat

The number of equali composed by Beethoven is not clear, as Glöggl-father doesn't mention how many Beethoven pieces he got, and Glöggl-son only mentions a piece for 6 tromboni.
Therefore it is very well possible that Beethoven wrote a fourth equale, but it is far from certain whether he actually did do.

If the piece has existed or still does exist, where to look for it.
Intriguing question, as Glöggl himself did possess some 2000 (two thousand !) pieces for between three and six tromboni, of which none whatsoever so far has been traced - just disappeared into thin air.... .

However, we do know where other pieces once in his possession MIGHT be found: in the archive of the Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde in Vienna.

Though at the moment such pieces are not to be found in any of the archive's catalogues and any other documentation regarding pieces from Glöggl's estate seems to have been destroyed or gone astray, we know for certain from a letter from Eusebius Mandyczewski to Franz Gräflinger that Glöggl's estate did consist of 43 instruments, 30 autograph scores, 70 portraits of musicians ("Tonkünstler") and Agricola's Musica instrumentali deudsch (1539 Wittenberg edition ).

Unfortunately Mandyczewski did not specify all this in more detail. However, with Mandyczewski's knowledge regarding manuscripts by Schubert and Beethoven, I assume that he would have mentioned a beethovenian manuscript of an unknown piece explicitly.

Therefore, IF a fourth equale still exists, the best chance to rediscover it is the archive of the Musikfreunde in Vienna.

[Hofrat]

Roehre;

I concur with you. The 6-trombone equale is most probably in the "Friends of Music Society" archives. It is just a question of taking the time to find it, if it still exists.