Recordings of complete piano concertos

[bernardc]

Anyone able to offer a recommendation? I'm looking for a complete set to quickly transfer to my "Beethoven" ipod!

Thanks,

Bernard

[Peter]

I'd go with Emil Gilels, George Szell/Cleveland Orch.

If you want HIP how about Andras Schiff. (Played on Beethoven's Broadwood piano).

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'Man know thyself'

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Peter:
I'd go with Emil Gilels, George Szell/Cleveland Orch.

If you want HIP how about Andreas Schiff. (Played on Beethoven's Broadwood piano).

Careful with Schiff and the Broadwood!! Is it recorded before 1991 when the Broadwood underwent major renovations?

If you want to go period piano, try John Eliot Gardiner and Robert Levin (an Archiv production). Not only do you get the 5 concerti, but you get the Choral Fantasy, the 4th concerto as a piano sextet, and the 2nd symphony as a piano trio as well!!


Hofrat

[Rod]

Originally posted by Hofrat:

Careful with Schiff and the Broadwood!! Is it recorded before 1991 when the Broadwood underwent major renovations?

If you want to go period piano, try John Eliot Gardiner and Robert Levin (an Archiv production). Not only do you get the 5 concerti, but you get the Choral Fantasy, the 4th concerto as a piano sextet, and the 2nd symphony as a piano trio as well!!


Hofrat

Forget Gardiner, the recording to go for is a new release of concertos 4 & 5 on the Alpha label. The fortepianist is Arthur Schoonderwoerd with the Ensemble Cristofori. The piano is a 6 octave original by Johann Fritz of Vienna circa 1807.

I refered to this release before on this site but i have just bought it and the 5th especially is like nothing you've ever heard. The orchestra is only around 20 strong as would have been the case for the premiers, and the fp is superb.

The general opinion is that the 4th is the best Beethoven concerto (ie the best concerto of all) but you may think twice about that after hearing this CD.

Back to the Gardiner set, dont quite forget it, they release the CD with the 4th chamber version and the 2nd symphony trio as a single cd as it is excellent. But i heard concertos 1 and 2 from the set and they failed to light my spark.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Forget Gardiner, the recording to go for is a new release of concertos 4 & 5 on the Alpha label. The fortepianist is Arthur Schoonderwoerd with the Ensemble Cristofori. The piano is a 6 octave original by Johann Fritz of Vienna circa 1807.

I refered to this release before on this site but i have just bought it and the 5th especially is like nothing you've ever heard. The orchestra is only around 20 strong as would have been the case for the premiers, and the fp is superb.

The general opinion is that the 4th is the best Beethoven concerto (ie the best concerto of all) but you may think twice about that after hearing this CD.

Back to the Gardiner set, dont quite forget it, they release the CD with the 4th chamber version and the 2nd symphony trio as a single cd as it is excellent. But i heard concertos 1 and 2 from the set and they failed to light my spark.

Is this the set with just solo violin in the finale? I would be interested in more evidence for this and what edition they are basing this on, considering B&H didn't publish a full score until long after B's death. I'm not convinced either of an orchestra around 20 for the premiers, where does this come from?

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'Man know thyself'

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Peter:
Is this the set with just solo violin in the finale? I would be interested in more evidence for this and what edition they are basing this on, considering B&H didn't publish a full score until long after B's death. I'm not convinced either of an orchestra around 20 for the premiers, where does this come from?

Just how big do you think the orchestras were in Beethoven's time? I know for a fact that Beethoven premiered "Eroica" (completed in 1804) with an orchestra of 32 players! With 14 of them being winds, brass, and timpani, that leaves just 18 string players.


Hofrat

[Peter]

Originally posted by Hofrat:

Just how big do you think the orchestras were in Beethoven's time? I know for a fact that Beethoven premiered "Eroica" (completed in 1804) with an orchestra of 32 players! With 14 of them being winds, brass, and timpani, that leaves just 18 string players.


Hofrat

That was a private orchestra - the 1808 performance used 56 musicians. You will also be aware that 18th century orchestras were variable in size - Mozart enthused about the Mannheim orchestra to his father which had a string section of 30 musicians -that was in 1777. Small forces were generally down to availabilty and finances rather than the wishes of the composer.

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'Man know thyself'

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Peter:
That was a private orchestra - the 1808 performance used 56 musicians. You will also be aware that 18th century orchestras were variable in size - Mozart enthused about the Mannheim orchestra to his father which had a string section of 30 musicians -that was in 1777. Small forces were generally down to availabilty and finances rather than the wishes of the composer.

Well, let us take a "public" orchestra at that time: the Royal Court Orchestra of Vienna in 1803. According to an article by Ottmar Schreiber on German orchestras and orchestral practices between 1780-1850, this orchestra numbered 35 musicians in 1803, 22 of which were string players.


Hofrat

[Luis Mariano]

20 players it is hard to belive.

Let´s take the Emperor Concerto:

2 fl
2 ob
2 bassoons
2 cl
2 horns
2 trumpets
2 timpani (1 player)

that means 13 players

do you think that you can get a good sound blanace with just 7 strings?

Let´s assume:

2 violin 1
2 violin 2
1 viola
1 cello
1 c. bass

?????

Not even in earliest Haydn's symphonies

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Luis Mariano:
20 players it is hard to belive.

Let´s take the Emperor Concerto:

2 fl
2 ob
2 bassoons
2 cl
2 horns
2 trumpets
2 timpani (1 player)

that means 13 players

do you think that you can get a good sound blanace with just 7 strings?

Let´s assume:

2 violin 1
2 violin 2
1 viola
1 cello
1 c. bass

?????

Not even in earliest Haydn's symphonies

I believe the intention was 20 "string" players, not 20 "total" players.

Hofrat

[bernardc]

As a matter of fact I'm not interested in period performances so please don't go on about the size of early 19th century orchestras - the subject bores me to death!

What I'm looking for is a pianist who can combine the playful Haydnesque humour and brio of the earlier concertos (Gilels?) with the high seriousness and weight of the later ones. Also I want a crystal clear sound with no instruments drowned out and sensible tempi throughout.

Please stick to these subjects!!

[JA Gardiner]

Originally posted by bernardc:
As a matter of fact I'm not interested in period performances so please don't go on about the size of early 19th century orchestras - the subject bores me to death!

What I'm looking for is a pianist who can combine the playful Haydnesque humour and brio of the earlier concertos (Gilels?) with the high seriousness and weight of the later ones. Also I want a crystal clear sound with no instruments drowned out and sensible tempi throughout.
Please stick to these subjects!!

Sounds like the Murray Perahia set with the Concertgebouw would fit your bill or any set by Brendel!

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Beethoven the Man!

[sjwenger]

No fair! You guys just recently sold me on Kazakevich for the 2nd and 4th, and now I have to buy a new set!

[Rutradelusasa]

Originally posted by bernardc:
As a matter of fact I'm not interested in period performances so please don't go on about the size of early 19th century orchestras - the subject bores me to death!

What I'm looking for is a pianist who can combine the playful Haydnesque humour and brio of the earlier concertos (Gilels?) with the high seriousness and weight of the later ones. Also I want a crystal clear sound with no instruments drowned out and sensible tempi throughout.

Please stick to these subjects!!

Well, in spite of being HIP and all, I love Hogwood's set with Lubin, it's fun, the way it should be.

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"Wer ein holdes weib errungen..."

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by sjwenger:
No fair! You guys just recently sold me on Kazakevich for the 2nd and 4th, and now I have to buy a new set!