Germany

[Chaszz]

Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Gluck, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Wagner, Bruckner, Brahms, Mahler, Strauss, Schoenberg, Berg, Webern

The greatest cultural achievement in human history

Brought to you by the nation that also produced the Holocaust

Go figure!


[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 09-08-2005).]

[Rutradelusasa]

Schubert and Bruckner were austriac .
Well... the germans also gave us Goethe and others...

------------------
"Wer ein holdes weib errungen..."

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rutradelusasa:
Schubert and Bruckner were austriac .
Well... the germans also gave us Goethe and others...

So were Haydn, Mozart, Mahler, Schoenberg, Berg, Webern and err Adolf Hitler!



------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
[B]Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Gluck, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Mendolssohn, Wagner, Bruckner, Brahms, Mahler, Strauss, Schoenberg, Berg, Webern

The greatest cultural achievement in human history

Brought to you by the nation that also produced the Holocaust

Go figure!

Well you can't figure it, there is no sense or correlataion to be made. A unique set of circumstances at a unique time allowed a unique man to dominate Germany and Europe. I believe it to be a human trait rather than a German phenomena anyway. The cultural achievement of Germany which wasn't even a nation state until 1870 is not linked to the events of 1933-1945, no matter how the Nazi's exploited their heritage - they attempted to destroy and deny the substantial Jewish contribution to their culture.

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 09-08-2005).]

[Rod]

Stalin wiped out millions of his own people... but then again the Russian composers weren't that hot either.


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:


Stalin wiped out millions of his own people... but then again the Russian composers weren't that hot either.

Mao Zedong wins 1st prize for atrocities outdoing Stalin and Hitler combined. This simply shows that no matter how ancient or cultured a civilisation, the evil in human nature can prevail. Thank God for Beethoven and other great artists for showing us something better - that is the purpose of art, to show man at his best.


If we want

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Chaszz]

That some of these composers were Austrian and not German is a very minor distinction. Austria is and was German speaking and German in descent and culture. This fact and the fact that Germany was not even united until 1870 is because the monarchs of the other European nations were always careful to keep Germans disunited by interfering in their politics and propping one petty ruler up against another, for centuries. The same thing happened with Italy which was also not united, in this case until 1861. Yet one would not deny that Rome and Florence were for centuries before that integral parts of the same culture. Painters in the Renaissance wandered back and forth between the two just the way Beethoven felt completely at home in Vienna (except for the slings, arrows and incomprehension they sometimes gave his music).

As for the Russians, they made up in literature for what they relatively lacked in music.

[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 09-08-2005).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Mao Zedong wins 1st prize for atrocities outdoing Stalin and Hitler combined...

I thought about Pol Pot too, but I couldn't think of any composers from Cambodia.


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

And the same goes for Queen Victoria... though technically she's a German too I guess.

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 09-08-2005).]

[sjwenger]

I'm still new to this group, but: People, please. I've seen other discussion groups torn apart by postings about politics and nationalities. Please consider the international composition of this group, and let's talk about Beethoven and his wonderful music.

[Rod]

Originally posted by sjwenger:
I'm still new to this group, but: People, please. I've seen other discussion groups torn apart by postings about politics and nationalities. Please consider the international composition of this group, and let's talk about Beethoven and his wonderful music.

I wasn't taking this chain seriously!

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Michael]

Originally posted by Rod:
I wasn't taking this chain seriously!

I'm glad you exposed Queen Victoria anyway. She caused millions of people to die of boredom.

Michael

[Rod]

Originally posted by Michael:
I'm glad you exposed Queen Victoria anyway. She caused millions of people to die of boredom.

Michael

But I was being serious about our Vicky. The British can commit genocide too!

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

I think sjwenger is right and this is going way off Beethoven and I think it best to close.

------------------
'Man know thyself'