The Beethoven Experience

[Droell]

Originally posted by Rod:
Temperament is an issue I have discussed here before and it is indeed part of the problem. Rod is left handed as you predicted. You see something in that?

In being left-handed? Yes, but you'd think I was crazy if I told you why.

PS: Does Rod throw right-handed?

[This message has been edited by Droell (edited 06-20-2005).]

[fellraven]

Saw Missa Solemnis on TV. Thought that original instruments were poor. Should have done it with modern. Must be some kind of fad.

[spaceray]

Originally posted by fellraven:
Saw Missa Solemnis on TV. Thought that original instruments were poor. Should have done it with modern. Must be some kind of fad.

Not a fad at all but a whole sweeping movement.No music student today will miss learning something about Historically Informed Performances and authentic instruments. Tell me did you think the musicians played badly or did you not like the sound of the instruments.I think you will find a wealth of Missa Solemni on modern instruments on disc but I personally would be tickled pink to have seen what you saw on the tube.Can you say who was performing and where?

[Rod]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Not a fad at all but a whole sweeping movement.No music student today will miss learning something about Historically Informed Performances and authentic instruments. Tell me did you think the musicians played badly or did you not like the sound of the instruments.I think you will find a wealth of Missa Solemni on modern instruments on disc but I personally would be tickled pink to have seen what you saw on the tube.Can you say who was performing and where?

I've heard the Missa live and on CD on modern instruments, but it didn't compare favourably to any of the 'authentic' versions I have on CD. I suggest the Missa above all sounds all the better 'period style'.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Droell:

In being left-handed? Yes, but you'd think I was crazy if I told you why.

PS: Does Rod throw right-handed?

[This message has been edited by Droell (edited 06-20-2005).]

I throw left, but hold a golf club or cricket bat as though I were right handed.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Droell]

Originally posted by Rod:
I throw left, but hold a golf club or cricket bat as though I were right handed.

I myself am left-handed. I throw - overhand, and for distance - with my left arm, but toss casually with my right. My father wrote left-handed, but threw right. I suspect most "left-handed" people are like this: Actually right-handed. The casual, unconscious things they do with their right hand give it away.

My guess is that Rod is a reincarnated pianist (yes, now the crazy part). I've gone over my own early memories, and spent a few years thinking about them. Habits carry over from life to life. Piano requires massive dexterity, which is not usually a problem for the right hand. The problem is with the left. Serious pianists tend to focus on it, habitually look at it, drill it, etc. The left is never supple enough, never fluid enough. Go out of that life, come into the next life, and you're still in the habit of looking at the left hand, drilling the left hand. By the age of two or three or four, sympathetic - but unmusical - parents have observed & have presumed that you're left-handed, put the pencil in the left hand, and off you go, a leftie for life.

I don't play piano, alas, but I have observed that my right hand can generally do whatever is needed on the keyboard. My left hand cannot, no matter how hard I try. Even though I touch-type, even though I can reach awqze with my left much more easlily than polkiu with my right.

Few left-handers are reincarnate pianists. So what is the chance of a reincarnate pianist? Realistically, so low you could use it to flip a starship from one side of the galaxy to the other. Except for boards like this, which will tend to attract them, and where they will tend to stand out.

So I thought about all this when I read the discussion about op. 57, earlier in this thread. Permit me to bore you further about reincarnates & Beethoven.

Many years ago I read somewhere that French academics thought one should wait, oh, maybe 150 years before coming to terms with some overly large historical figure, like Napoleon. On the face of it, this seems stupid, since all the associates would be long dead, all the primary research would be moulding away, etc. On the face of it, waiting 150 years should make it harder, not easier. Whatever historical perspective could be had, could easily have been had after 20 or 30 years. (Think WWII, or Vietnam).

Except that I found support for the French idea in past life studies, where, according to the clairvoyants who claim to know, a lot of people cycle back into life after a century or two. Men like Napoleon & Beethoven were the dominant personalities in their social groups. Those who were dominated by them (Ferdinand Ries, for example), did in fact spend their post-Beethoven years in awe of what they had seen & the roles they themselves had played.

Given the various presumptions, one would then presume that a reincarnate Waldstein (perhaps not to be confused with a member of this board) would become an unwitting Beethoven authority during his present lifetime, presuming that Waldstein is in fact alive now. Driven, unconsciously, to come to terms with what he witnessed first-hand in his last life.

Regrettably, my studies do not show such a clear link. Ries is a useful example. Back in the 1970's & 1980's, Cecil Hill, at the University of New England in NSW, Australia, did seminal work reviving the man & his music. For my part, I am reasonably convinced (as convinced as anyone can be) that Ferdinand Ries, and Anton Schindler, are both alive & well & living in the US. Schindler-reincarnate is in his late 40's, Ries-reincarnate is in his mid 50's. They met each other in the late 1980's & agreed to continue not liking each other. Ries has suspected who he was since the late 1980's, I am not certain about Schindler. Neither one is famous, neither one has anything to do with music (neither one plays an instrument) but both are, still, dominated by their nearly-overt memories of Beethoven. Cecil Hill never heard of either one of them.

But the radical reevaluation of both these men only occurred during their subsequent lives, and, seemingly, without their knowledge or participation, through no action of their own.

So if we have, elsewhere, definitively deciphered who the Immortal Beloved was, it may be because she (or he) is now alive & living an obscure life, accompanied by the obligitory collected works of Beethoven. And given that the 9th is still played execrably, we may presume the driving force behind it, Karl Beethoven, is either not incarnate at this time, or has not yet reached maturity. My best guess is that he is not alive & has no desire to be back anytime soon. Until then, I will go on with memories of an Everest recording of Furtwangler's Bayreuth performance.

End of crazy. Did you like?

[Peter]

Originally posted by Droell:
End of crazy. Did you like?

Highly entertaining! It is of course possible that all of us on this board knew each other in Vienna in the 1800s and we've been drawn back by B's music! I was probably one of Carl Czerny's cats and picked up my musical tips from him that way! As for Czerny, I'm sure he is now one of my cats - a highly musical little thing whose favourite spot is the piano stool!

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'Man know thyself'

[Droell]

Originally posted by Peter:
Highly entertaining!

Thank-you!

Originally posted by Peter:
It is of course possible that all of us on this board knew each other in Vienna in the 1800s and we've been drawn back by B's music!

Knew & hated each other, I hope. That's so much more entertaining. Enlightening, I mean.

Originally posted by Peter:
I was probably one of Carl Czerny's cats and picked up my musical tips from him that way! As for Czerny, I'm sure he is now one of my cats - a highly musical little thing whose favourite spot is the piano stool!

Ah, the joys of Friday cat-blogging have arrived early this week!



[This message has been edited by Droell (edited 06-22-2005).]

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Droell:
End of crazy. Did you like?

This is a bit more off topic and somewhat harsh, so be warned and skip it if you must:
but if the 15 billion meat animals per year who live tortured lives crammed into factory farms, and then are often skinned alive, dismembered alive or boiled alive in the rapid slaughtering lines, are reincarnated among us, some as humans, it holds out a bleak picture for the human race. And well deserved.

If animals are reincarnated amongst us, surely this will soon be hell. If they are not, what is the divine difference in humans that renders them reincarnate while animals are not? Especially when they treat animals such.

Humans had better hope reincarnation does not exist.

Forgive me. I usually try to leave animal rights out of arenas where it is off topic, but sometimes I can't help myself, such as when a subject comes up like this.

[Droell]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
This is a bit more off topic and somewhat harsh, so be warned and skip it if you must:
but if the 15 billion meat animals per year who live tortured lives crammed into factory farms, and then are often skinned alive, dismembered alive or boiled alive in the rapid slaughtering lines, are reincarnated among us, some as humans, it holds out a bleak picture for the human race. And well deserved.

Hello Chaszz:

No offense taken, but to make your point, you need a basic knowledge of metaphysics. More than I can recite here, unfortunately. The essential guidelines are that each specis is (are?) unique & souls from one cannot migrate to another. Any more than they can cross-breed. Another basic rule is that animals which we, as humans, do not individually name & which, in general, do not respond to a name, have herd (eg, group) souls, not individual ones. Cattle are an interesting group. The vast numbers bred to slaughter are most likely part of a vast group soul. Amish milk cows, and the sacred cows of India, are most likely individuals. As for transmigration, from human to animal & back: Generally no, not possible. I am prepared to hear exceptions from India.

Does that mean that even the meanest animal, the slightest insect, does not suffer? Of course they suffer, and humans are often the cause. I've been a vegetarian since 1984.

[Droell]

Originally posted by Peter:
I was probably one of Carl Czerny's cats and picked up my musical tips from him that way! As for Czerny, I'm sure he is now one of my cats - a highly musical little thing whose favourite spot is the piano stool!

Peter, if you're game, let's have fun. Do you think Czerny was born 20 February, or 21 February? I no longer have access to clairvoyants, and at any rate, everything is at a distance. All I can look at are astrological charts. Seems to me that for two successive births of the same individual, the charts should have a mutual resonance of some sort. Czerny has Sun, Mars, Venus all in Pisces. Mercury is in Aquarius, Jupiter in Virgo, the node in Libra, the Moon in Virgo or Libra. Uranus is in Leo, Neptune in Libra, Pluto in Aquarius.

[Droell]

q

[This message has been edited by Droell (edited 06-23-2005).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Droell:
Peter, if you're game, let's have fun. Do you think Czerny was born 20 February, or 21 February? I no longer have access to clairvoyants, and at any rate, everything is at a distance. All I can look at are astrological charts. Seems to me that for two successive births of the same individual, the charts should have a mutual resonance of some sort. Czerny has Sun, Mars, Venus all in Pisces. Mercury is in Aquarius, Jupiter in Virgo, the node in Libra, the Moon in Virgo or Libra. Uranus is in Leo, Neptune in Libra, Pluto in Aquarius.

Well you've lost me there Droell! I think he was born on Feb 20th - in this life, Marple (after the great detective) as he/she is now known was born at the beginning of Feb. Music loving as my dear cat is, she needs to learn to sit rather than collapse on the stall!



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'Man know thyself'

[Peter]

Don't forget the drama of Beethoven's hair is on BBC2 tonight at 11.20pm - the write up describes him as having more lead than Bonnie and Clyde!

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'Man know thyself'

[Amalie]

Originally posted by Peter:
Don't forget the drama of Beethoven's hair is on BBC2 tonight at 11.20pm - the write up describes him as having more lead than Bonnie and Clyde!

Here you are Peter, something guarunteed to set you on edge. Beethoven on a bad hair day ! How can they depict Beethoven like this. As always they concentrate on his supposed unkempt physical appearance and possible bipolar disorder. The guy in the picture looks like he has given up the will to live. That seems to accord with what the controllers of these absurd programmes seem to think a genius looks like .
There is a difficulty in pictorially representing any great artist , when after all what they produce is something intangible and of the mind and heart. But I really don't think we are going to learn anything new from this GCSE version of the composers life.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/classical...venshair.shtml
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~ Courage, so it be righteous, will gain all things ~



[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited 06-23-2005).]