The Beethoven Experience

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
I doubt if Beethoven indicated in the score what I regulalry find fault with op57.

Well Beethoven didn't always indicate the obvious, for example when the theme returns in the final variation of op.109, there is no slowing of the tempo marked, but it would make no sense to continue at the frantic pace of the preceding passage of demisemiquavers (32nd notes) and trills - there has to be a ritardando even though it isn't marked. This is just one example out of many where the performer has to use his own judgement.

I would be interested to know the passages in Op.57 you regularly find fault with with regard to tempo fluctuations.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Well Beethoven didn't always indicate the obvious, for example when the theme returns in the final variation of op.109, there is no slowing of the tempo marked, but it would make no sense to continue at the frantic pace of the preceding passage of demisemiquavers (32nd notes) and trills - there has to be a ritardando even though it isn't marked. This is just one example out of many where the performer has to use his own judgement.

I would be interested to know the passages in Op.57 you regularly find fault with with regard to tempo fluctuations.

All of the first movement!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:

All of the first movement!

Hmm, that doesn't really help me identify why these fluctuations may be there!

Dare I ask if you saw the Menuhin last night?


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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 06-01-2005).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:

Hmm, that doesn't really help me identify why these fluctuations may be there!

Dare I ask if you saw the Menuhin last night?

Alas no I forgot about that.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:


Dare I ask if you saw the Menuhin last night?

Dare I ask if you saw the Menuhin??

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Dare I ask if you saw the Menuhin??

Yes of course! It was the historic 1962 studio performance conducted by a youthful Colin Davis - historic because I was born that year!

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Yes of course! It was the historic 1962 studio performance conducted by a youthful Colin Davis - historic because I was born that year!

But was it any good? The VC is one of the worst directed pieces regardless of the soloist.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
But was it any good? The VC is one of the worst directed pieces regardless of the soloist.

How can I answer that for you?!

I enjoyed last night's Beethoven docu-drama and especially the dynamic Fortepiano playing of Ronald Brautigam. I believe he is in the process of recording the complete sonatas and wondered what are your views on him? I think he uses a copy of a Walter piano for his first volume of the sonatas.

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 06-04-2005).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
How can I answer that for you?!

I enjoyed last night's Beethoven docu-drama and especially the dynamic Fortepiano playing of Ronald Brautigam. I believe he is in the process of recording the complete sonatas and wondered what are your views on him? I think he uses a copy of a Walter piano for his first volume of the sonatas.

Hazelwood was annoying yet again last night. I was not surprised he directed the second Symphony.

I have 3 Beethoven CDs by Brautigam, but not his latest (the first of his complete piano music). 1, the earliest, is on modern piano (a collection of klavierstucke like rondos and fur elise), 2 CDs on Walter (op2 and some early variations). The Klavierstucke aer excellent apart from the piano, the tone of which gets monotonous after a while as with all modern instruments. Ironically the op2 set what not as good as i was expecting. His playing is a little lack lustre here and there with the tempos below normal. Perhaps he is getting old.

But I hope for his Diabelli and Eroica variations soon!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 06-04-2005).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Hazelwood was annoying yet again last night. I was not surprised he directed the second Symphony.

At least it was preferable to the incredibly lame klemperer version which I found too painful to watch! Norrington's 4th was enjoyable, but again from the BBc archive series I found Stokowski's 5th lacking in vitality, especially the 1st movement.

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 06-15-2005).]

[Suflex]

This is a bit out of topic but I can't stop myself.

I'm turning green with envy, reading about the BBC broadcasts you're discussing.

In Egypt we have to make do with the local Philharmonic orchestra ((Whether on TV or live), and I won't go in details about how painfully bad they sound, let's just say I was thrown out several times for laughing out loud..., and you guys sitting there lamenting the senility of the Steinway sound, at least it is in TUNE... (Yes that's how bad things are here..)

Ahem...Got a bit carried away, you go on now...

[Droell]

Originally posted by Rod:
I doubt if Beethoven indicated in the score what I regulalry find fault with op57.

I am wondering if even tempering might be Rod's discontent. I'm also wondering if Rod is left-handed, or had left-handed leanings when he was very small.

[Peter]

Yesterday we had the final part of the docu-drama on Beethoven - this to me was the best of the 3 parts and I think Paul Rhyss actually looked pretty much like the Waldmuller painting! Some moving scenes in this and a good portrayal of Beethoven battling with the great fugue in the Credo.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
At least it was preferable to the incredibly lame klemperer version which I found too painful to watch! Norrington's 4th was enjoyable, but again from the BBc archive series I found Stokowski's 5th lacking in vitality, especially the 1st movement.

Of the 9 symphonies performed on BBCTV 4, Norrington's (nos 1, 4 and 7) were by far the best, though if I'd been conducting they would have been much better still! The old old school renditions (2, 5 and 8) predicatbly lame, and the new old school (the remainder) as lame as the old (apart from Rattles correct interpretation of a very fast trio section in the Scherzo of the 9th.

PS Sorry for no authentic op81a, a combination of server troubles and me being on a two week R&R have prevented it. I've back to work in a week so hopefully normal service will be resumed then.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Droell:
I am wondering if even tempering might be Rod's discontent. I'm also wondering if Rod is left-handed, or had left-handed leanings when he was very small.

Temperament is an issue I have discussed here before and it is indeed part of the problem. Rod is left handed as you predicted. You see something in that?

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin