What are you listening to right now ?

[Hofrat]

[quote]Originally posted by Geratlas:

Hofrat, now that we have set dialog in motion I take the oppurtunity of heading it in another direction, and to my mind I have specific works of Beethoven's which like that of schubert's deserve wider public notion. For exemple the abandoned triple concerto. Or: How about those works attributed to LvB with changing degree of conspicion? As alternative it would be preferable if you got something you yourself like to discuss or disect. I am not entirely oblivious when it come down to LvB's musical output... / Geratlas Hefnur alà Gamid.

I accept the challenge!! Of the sketches Beethoven left us, the most comprehensive of them are Hess 15: A concerto movement for piano and orchestra in D major. Professor Nicholas Cook did a great job with the realization. It was to be recorded in France a few years ago, but a tempermental soloist ruined such plans. Inedita is suppose to come out with their 4th Beethoven Rarity CD September featuring this piece. I eagerly await it.


Hofrat

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
There was an earlier 'trio' concerto in D sketched in 1802.

I see, sorry I was assuming it was a reference to the completed effort that was all but 'abandoned' by the musical establishment until recently.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Geratlas]

Originally posted by Rod:
We discussed a piano sonata here some time ago, the last one I think. This illustrates my earlier comment ('confused' could be another word), but the same can be said for many instrumental piece I've heard by Schubert on the radio, they come across to me as a pot pourri of unrelated fragments or other composer styles.

Rod, thanks for the explanation. I am not sure I get it right, but I shall try and find time to read that thread before guessing at it. / To term Op.56 "Trio Concerto" make more sense as you have it, and is the more telling. If you don't think Piano Trio Concerto has more to it. The abandoned Trio Concerto was simply headed *Concertino [in D]* by LvB himself implying it to be on a smaller scale, but I don't believe the it is. / G.

Hofrat, I am looking forward to exchange thoughts on the unfinished concertos, as soon as I can. All I will be able to say today is that I am really astounded that a (mere) soloist can get in the way of such immensely interesting premiere. I hope you will not mind ... to much. / G.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Geratlas:

Rod, thanks for the explanation. I am not sure I get it right, but I shall try and find time to read that thread before guessing at it. / To term Op.56 "Trio Concerto" make more sense as you have it, and is the more telling. If you don't think Piano Trio Concerto has more to it. The abandoned Trio Concerto was simply headed *Concertino [in D]* by LvB himself implying it to be on a smaller scale, but I don't believe the it is. / G.

I couldn't even find the chain concerning Schubert myself so don't try too hard. Don't worry about it, I'm not particularly a Schubertian!

I agree Piano Trio Concerto explains the whole situation, but Trio Concerto just rolls off the tongue better. I'd totally forgotten about the other unfinished concerto.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 08-15-2005).]

[sjwenger]

I know what I'll be listening to next hour: at 8:19 pm Eastern Daylight Time, radio station http://www.wgms.com (with a listen live button) will play:

Beethoven, Ludwig van: Piano Concerto #5 "Emperor," Alfred Brendel (piano), Chicago Symphony Orchestra, James Levine (conductor)
[Philips 411.189] [OP. 73; E-flat Major]

[Peter]

Schumann's 3rd symphony which I adore!

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'Man know thyself'

[untamed_personality]

B's Opus 58, with Vladimir Ashkenazy directing the Cleveland Orchestra from the piano. Glorious!

If ever a work rewarded repeated hearings, it's this one. It just grows and grows...

The greatest concerto of them all? It's surely the most beautiful.

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Seizing fate by the throat...

[Geratlas]

Originally posted by Hofrat:
I accept the challenge!! Of the sketches Beethoven left us, the most comprehensive of them are Hess 15: A concerto movement for piano and orchestra in D major. Professor Nicholas Cook did a great job with the realization. It was to be recorded in France a few years ago, but a tempermental soloist ruined such plans. Inedita is suppose to come out with their 4th Beethoven Rarity CD September featuring this piece. I eagerly await it. Hofrat

(Sorry about the delay)- Hofrat, I have heard OF this work some times already and am also awaiting that release with great anticipation! When do you reccon it will become available? - It is really a farce that an incompatible soloist should ruin its premiere for years!! Ofcourse, the matter of the originally intended soloist might be the very reason for this work's existence - and why it was eventually abandoned. If it was commissioned from Archduke Rudolf and so was to be performed by him, the cause of its farreached first movement into score and also its sudden abandonment seems explainable. It would indeed surprise me if the great events of the Vienna Congress of late 1814 to early 1815 had nothing to do with its rallied composition (it surely is handsome to see it as one contributing factor) and that the Archduke had it commissioned thus to excel his skilled piano playing at an event of unmatched splendour.
Anyhow, the concerto was started about the inauguration of the Congress and was not abandoned (from a musical standpoint quite unexpectedly) until spring next year, when Vienna had enjoyed the peak of royal grandeur that really surrounded much of the Congress. Of course even with the Congress behind LvB might have pursued the chance for a soon performance of the work and to have it published for reasonable price. The reason to the fact it never happened might lie with its sufficiently degenerated chances for a required performance of quite banal nature: it was no better than that Archduke Rudolf had heavily injured one of his hands, and as the much possibly intended performer disabled any premiere date for months to come (as it were that LvB himself had ceased performing in public from about 1810). This instant impedement might not have been sufficient to cancel this projected and not other than ambitious concerto altogether, and one might perhaps rather find the cause for its eventual doom in LvB's dramatically changed financial situation and consequensed to settlement in court which took much of his time and powers this year (1815). I know next to nothing of the state in which LvB left the work. You say it is the largest body of work left unfinished by LvB (and I have no reason to doubt your approval on Prof. Cook's realization) it may be contended for this entitle by the operatic scene Hess115, the abandoned Trio Concerto, and the combined drafts and extensive sketches for a 'First' symphony. the first Allegro worked into detail in working score. - How much of the movement does the score encompass, and if there is material for following movements, do you perhaps owe insight to their nature?

The Trio Concerto mentioned earlier is after what I have read of similar extensive score and succumbed to degree of detail (ex. to dynamics): a good candidate for future realizations, even though it was once rejected probably by mere musical standards: as they was to LvB in 1802. - Well, honestly; I have no clue whatsoever, but the fact it was obviously intended for the planned spring academy of 1802 which did not materialize, give this assumption credence. Grateful for additonal information. PS. It would be welcome too, for a recording of the later orchestrated introduction version of the Fantasia, Hess.16, before 200 years after its composition pass (2009). And this authentic LvB!!! / Geratlas sending ::: Over to you :::

[Note of Reservation] To the moderators: I just want to let you know I am aware this is out of the topic. Would you recommend for the continued dialog to be moved elsewhere?

Rod. You are perhaps not a "Schubertian", yet you are at least familiar with some of his astonishing music. I value your standpoints on his compositons, even as I (in this case) did not get hold of your view.
But by Orpheus! a Beethovenian and Handelian you are with certain, and I shall thank you for it. - Yesterday I came by the serie encompassing LvB's complete(d) work's for cello and pianoforte on Apex label, which you wisely promoted a while ago. I have had oppurtunity to listen to the Sonata Opus 5 numero 1, and I simply does not need to tell YOU how stunningly effective it is. For you others I strongly recommend this the first CD, and count for the other two to be just as pleasing. / G.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Geratlas:

Rod. You are perhaps not a "Schubertian", yet you are at least familiar with some of his astonishing music. I value your standpoints on his compositons, even as I (in this case) did not get hold of your view.
But by Orpheus! a Beethovenian and Handelian you are with certain, and I shall thank you for it. - Yesterday I came by the serie encompassing LvB's complete(d) work's for cello and pianoforte on Apex label, which you wisely promoted a while ago. I have had oppurtunity to listen to the Sonata Opus 5 numero 1, and I simply does not need to tell YOU how stunningly effective it is. For you others I strongly recommend this the first CD, and count for the other two to be just as pleasing. / G.

I find Schubert's music in general 'mixed up' from a Beethovenian perspective.

If you want to hear the best of Handel join my Handel Yahoo group (the url is in my profile here) and you'll have access to mp3s and alot of other info.

Regarding the Beethoven cello music on Apex I am glad you took advantage of my recommendation. All I can add is that, if anything, the first disk (which has op5/1) is the weakest of the 3 production wise. So you have even better things to look forward to with the others. These are a 'must buy' at a bargain price.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 08-17-2005).]

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Geratlas:

Originally posted by Hofrat:
I accept the challenge!! Of the sketches Beethoven left us, the most comprehensive of them are Hess 15: A concerto movement for piano and orchestra in D major. Professor Nicholas Cook did a great job with the realization. It was to be recorded in France a few years ago, but a tempermental soloist ruined such plans. Inedita is suppose to come out with their 4th Beethoven Rarity CD September featuring this piece. I eagerly await it. Hofrat

I have heard of this work [Hess 15] some times already and am also awaiting that release with great anticipation! When do you reckon it will become available? - It is really a farce that an incompatible soloist should ruin its premiere for years!! How much of the movement does the score encompass, and if there is material for following movements, do you perhaps owe insight to their nature?

As I understand, the Inedita CD will be available in September 2005.

A good friend of mine was at the 2001 rehearsals in France. This eye witness told me that the soloist was sulking and throwing tantrums all the time, systematically destroying any attempt to progress with the work.

According to my copy of Jame F. Green's *New Hess Catalog*, Beethoven made some 70 pages of sketches for the first movement and started writing out in full score up until the middle of the of the soloist's exposition.

BTW, Professor Cook's manuscript of this realization is available and downloadable on the internet. And the good professor fround someone to publish its first edition.

Hofrat

[Chaszz]

My local classical radio station WQXR-FM plays too much sweet fluff directed at yuppies, but they are not all bad. They also sometimes exhume worthy lesser-known composers. Yesterday Symphony No. 4 by Neils Gade, a Danish Romantic composer, who succeeded Mendelssohn as conductor of the Leipzig Gewandhaus before moving back to Denmark. A very fine and original symphony, and evidently a composer worth exploring. The melodic ideas and even the orchestration were quite original and beautiful.

Also I'm finally reading Gibbon. A fine user of the English language, reminiscent of William S. in his flexibility and creativity in sentence construction.

Also have been listening every day for a month to Brahms' Piano Quintet. This is a complex and wonderful work which could have been a symphony. Started as a string quartet, then became a two-piano sonata, then finally a quintet for piano and strings, both reworkings at the advice of Clara Schumann.
A wonderful achievement. And also have been enjoying Beethoven's delightful trio for
piano, clarinet and cello.


[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 08-19-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 08-19-2005).]

[Sorrano]

This morning I caught the finale of Beethoven's 3rd piano concerto (Davis and Arrau). It wasn't bad but I think I've heard better.

[LudwigSebastianMozart]

bach passions! masterpieces!

[Geratlas]

Originally posted by Hofrat:
As I understand, the Inedita CD will be available in September 2005. [---] According to my copy of James F. Green's *New Hess Catalog*, Beethoven made some 70 pages of sketches for the first movement and started writing out in full score up until the middle of the of the soloist's exposition.
BTW, Professor Cook's manuscript of this realization is available and downloadable on the internet. And the good professor fround someone to publish its first edition. Hofrat

Hof[kame]rat! August turn to September. I do not know about you, but I for certain like the ring to it. - 70 surviving pages of this concerto (with the working score accounted?) ought to represent a significant quantity of material. What can you tell of their content; are there for exemple sketches for following movement(s), however simple? - What do you think of having the Choral Fantasia produced with LvB's orchestral introduction? I cannot see why it has not been done before. / G. sending over to you :::

[JA Gardiner]

Mozart symphony no. 41 Jeffrey Tate and the ECO - from his complete 51 symphony box set. Fine performance of this but i thought the 40th was a little slow and slightly underpowered.

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Beethoven the Man!