Originally posted by Geratlas:
From what I so far have learned about the G major concerto, the final revision was not necessarily written out in its entirety, since these 'deviations' (of which I suppose portions may have been lost) provide us with little more than a 'basis'. If we are to believe Czerny's report (which I think we are safe to do), it would be interesting to know when this might have been. Only naturally it must have been some time after the work's publication in 1808 (let us have it in August), and thus unlikely before the its premiere at the grand concert in December, as he was usually did not reconsider his works for revision soon after they got published (and this at a time when he had hard work composing his choral Fantasia). In 1809 he begun to compose his great E flat concerto in earnest, and is thought to have written out the cadenzas for his five piano concertos that very summer. As the cadenzas for the G major concerto are now regularly played in performance with the published score of 1808 (I mean it seems most likely that they were simply added to THAT score, but what do I know), the material of the final revisions seem to stem from a still later date. What more can you say about the extant revision material; does it stem from one or more sources? What are there to date the manuscript? Also in 1809, though, the Pastoral Symphony, and the Choral Fantasia underwent (modest) revisions in 'final' scores obviously intended for soon publications which were in the end omitted. (Op.68 in 1809, and Op.80 in 1811.)
- You are right Only one cadenza to Hess 83 - the other cadenzas are (of course!) Hess 81 and 82.
I assume that the cadenzas (Hess 81,82, AND 83!) which are supposed to date from 1807, are liable to have been connected to the chamber version (is it fitting to call it transcription?) of the concerto of the same year. They might have been rejected on the spot they were notated, as they to my knowledge do not form part in the concerto. (Tricky question: Do you know if this chamber version got a specific catalog number?)
I am just in time to furnish my text (puh!) and send it before time's up. It'll have to do. Hope you'll cope. / sinc. G.
From what I so far have learned about the G major concerto, the final revision was not necessarily written out in its entirety, since these 'deviations' (of which I suppose portions may have been lost) provide us with little more than a 'basis'. If we are to believe Czerny's report (which I think we are safe to do), it would be interesting to know when this might have been. Only naturally it must have been some time after the work's publication in 1808 (let us have it in August), and thus unlikely before the its premiere at the grand concert in December, as he was usually did not reconsider his works for revision soon after they got published (and this at a time when he had hard work composing his choral Fantasia). In 1809 he begun to compose his great E flat concerto in earnest, and is thought to have written out the cadenzas for his five piano concertos that very summer. As the cadenzas for the G major concerto are now regularly played in performance with the published score of 1808 (I mean it seems most likely that they were simply added to THAT score, but what do I know), the material of the final revisions seem to stem from a still later date. What more can you say about the extant revision material; does it stem from one or more sources? What are there to date the manuscript? Also in 1809, though, the Pastoral Symphony, and the Choral Fantasia underwent (modest) revisions in 'final' scores obviously intended for soon publications which were in the end omitted. (Op.68 in 1809, and Op.80 in 1811.)
- You are right Only one cadenza to Hess 83 - the other cadenzas are (of course!) Hess 81 and 82.
I assume that the cadenzas (Hess 81,82, AND 83!) which are supposed to date from 1807, are liable to have been connected to the chamber version (is it fitting to call it transcription?) of the concerto of the same year. They might have been rejected on the spot they were notated, as they to my knowledge do not form part in the concerto. (Tricky question: Do you know if this chamber version got a specific catalog number?)
I am just in time to furnish my text (puh!) and send it before time's up. It'll have to do. Hope you'll cope. / sinc. G.
Dear Geratlas;
As I understand, the manuscript from which Beethoven performed the 22 December 1808 premiere of the 4th piano concerto is preserved in the archives of the Friends of Music Association. I do not have Dr. Cooper's article about the revisions, so I do not know details such as the date of the manuscript.
As for the cadenzas of the concerto Hess 81, 83 and 83, they date from 1809 according to my *New Hess Catalog* (edited by James Green).
Hofrat
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