What are you listening to right now ?

[Geratlas]

Originally posted by Hofrat:
I truly enjoy the Beethoven rarities. You can find them in the most unusual places. For instance, one of my favorite CD's is Beethoven's 2nd and 4th piano concerti in a world premiere recording with Beethoven's final revisions (Conifer Classics 75605-51237-2 English Chamber Orchestra under Mackerras, Kazakevich on the piano). | As for the 2nd concerto, after the publication of the work, Beethoven prepared some 17 revisions that for some reason he never sent to the publisher. - I definitely think that the changes Beethoven made for the 2nd concerto results in a tighter and clearer composition. Hofrat

Hofrat You are so very good with rarities that I could not think of you without this of a CD. It is not to wonder why it is one of your favorites: The B-flat concerto alone (I am not keen to have it as 'No.2') finally credit LvB for his long and ardious work at it and for having added yet one more artistic achievement. Is this final revision just as much as the ACTUAL opus 19 (published by Hoffmeister 1801)? - The today commonly played version (scruplously assigned with the opus no.) was prepared for performance 1798 and at that time probably intended for soon publication but as it still(!) remained unsatisfactory to LvB he set out produce a final score for the B-flat concerto, which eventually got published and only then given its opus number. It should certainly be considered as the preferable version for the live concert! I never knew of a late revision of the G major concerto, though, dating from late 1808, is it? Do you know if it deals with the almost contemporary cadenzas (hess83)? I hope (in vain!?) to see these final revisions be taken to the public repertoire as they were once consigned: I mean they are after all LvB's final revisions (and in that respect to be viewed as a 'last will')! / Grtls
PS. I am = happy that you feel up the challange to concern with my postings. DS.

[Sorrano]

I've been listening to Davidsbundlertanze by Schumann. I love his piano music!

[Brithooven]

I am listening to Dvorak piano music played by radoslav Kvapil. His piano music is quite light, and somewhat reminds me of Chopin (obvious influence). Someone referred to a Beethoven piano concerto outside of his 5 numbered ones. A friend lent me a copy of Beethoven's "piano concerto in e-flat major no.0"(3 movements) coupled with "piano concerto in d major" (concerto in one movement) Both , like his 3 "electoral" piano sonatas show glimpses of the captivating Beethoven to come.

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Geratlas:

Originally posted by Hofrat:
I truly enjoy the Beethoven rarities. You can find them in the most unusual places. For instance, one of my favorite CD's is Beethoven's 2nd and 4th piano concerti in a world premiere recording with Beethoven's final revisions (Conifer Classics 75605-51237-2 English Chamber Orchestra under Mackerras, Kazakevich on the piano). | As for the 2nd concerto, after the publication of the work, Beethoven prepared some 17 revisions that for some reason he never sent to the publisher. - I definitely think that the changes Beethoven made for the 2nd concerto results in a tighter and clearer composition. Hofrat

Hofrat You are so very good with rarities that I could not think of you without this of a CD. It is not to wonder why it is one of your favorites: The B-flat concerto alone (I am not keen to have it as 'No.2') finally credit LvB for his long and ardious work at it and for having added yet one more artistic achievement. Is this final revision just as much as the ACTUAL opus 19 (published by Hoffmeister 1801)? -

As you know, the "2nd" piano concerto predates the "1st" by several years. Beethoven actually began the "2nd" as early as 1787. Beethoven wrote out the full score in 1793 after arriving in Vienna. He returned to this work in 1795 composing entirely new 2nd and 3rd movements (the previous finale still survives as an independent Rondo). By 1798, Beethoven was not yet satisfied with it and made substantial alterations and this was the version that formed the basis for the 1st edition published in 1801. But before publication, Beethoven returned to the score for the last time and revised several more passages. These revisions were never sent to the publishers because of the shortage of time.

For more details concerning the revisions to the "2nd" concerto, I refer you to Cooper's *Beethoven--the Creative Process* (Clarendon Press).


Hofrat

[Sorrano]

Last night spent the time with music of Wagner, from Tannhauser, Die Miestersinger, Tristan und Isolde, and finally, Die Fliegende Hollander (all orchestral, no vocal/choral). Good listening, again!

[Joy]

Sorrano, good listening last night indeed! For me this morning it's been Beethoven's Symphony #4, Philharmonic of La Scala with
Carlo Maria Giulini, conductor.


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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Brithooven]

Yesterday afternoon, I listened to Mahler's 5th symphony. To me it just sounds like a hodge-podge of sound. Maybe someone can tell me why they might like it - am I missing something? Today is Myaskovsky's turn. I love his symphonies. A while back Joy mentioned Haydn piano. I have the complete works (John McCabe) It's a mini treasure chest -12 cd's. The recording is mid 70's; the sound and performances are both excellent. I prefer his overall set to Mozarts, to compare apples to apples, even with an excellent set of M's performed by Pires.

[srivele]

Today I heard a truly remarkable recording of one of the Corelli Concerti Grossi by Europa Galante. I'd never heard it played this way before: light, antic, eccentric, but with great attention to detail and with very precise playing. Am I wrong?


[This message has been edited by srivele (edited 09-01-2005).]

[Geratlas]

Originally posted by Hofrat:
As you know, the "2nd" piano concerto predates the "1st" by several years. Beethoven actually began the "2nd" as early as 1787. Beethoven wrote out the full score in 1793 after arriving in Vienna. He returned to this work in 1795 composing entirely new 2nd and 3rd movements (the previous finale still survives as an independent Rondo). By 1798, Beethoven was not yet satisfied with it and made substantial alterations and this was the version that formed the basis for the 1st edition published in 1801. But before publication, Beethoven returned to the score for the last time and revised several more passages. These revisions were never sent to the publishers because of the shortage of time. For more details concerning the revisions to the "2nd" concerto, I refer you to Cooper's *Beethoven--the Creative Process* (Clarendon Press). Hofrat

Yes, thank you Hofrat for the briefing. No doubt an intruiging history to this Concerto. - So; what about the revision of the G major Concerto. When and, indeed, why did LvB undertake it? And are you perhaps able to determine or conjure whether the cadenzas (Hess 83, dated 1807, I believe) might have been concidered for it at one time?
By the way, what are you listening to "now"? I have floated into Bruckner's Third Symphony (D minor). Very rigid and refreshing music I tell you. No Eroica though Regards Grtls
Ps. thanks for the ref. to Cooper's book.

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Geratlas:

Originally posted by Hofrat:
As you know, the "2nd" piano concerto predates the "1st" by several years. Beethoven actually began the "2nd" as early as 1787. Beethoven wrote out the full score in 1793 after arriving in Vienna. He returned to this work in 1795 composing entirely new 2nd and 3rd movements (the previous finale still survives as an independent Rondo). By 1798, Beethoven was not yet satisfied with it and made substantial alterations and this was the version that formed the basis for the 1st edition published in 1801. But before publication, Beethoven returned to the score for the last time and revised several more passages. These revisions were never sent to the publishers because of the shortage of time. For more details concerning the revisions to the "2nd" concerto, I refer you to Cooper's *Beethoven--the Creative Process* (Clarendon Press). Hofrat

So; what about the revision of the G major Concerto. When and, indeed, why did LvB undertake it? And are you perhaps able to determine or conjure whether the cadenzas (Hess 83, dated 1807, I believe) might have been concidered for it at one time?
By the way, what are you listening to "now"? I have floated into Bruckner's Third Symphony (D minor). Very rigid and refreshing music I tell you. No Eroica though Regards Grtls
Ps. thanks for the ref. to Cooper's book.

Dear Geratlas;

If I am not mistaken, The 4th piano concerto was published in August 1808, several months before Beethoven's premiere performance of it on 22 December 1808. According to Czerny, Beethoven played a mischievous rendition of the work, that deviated greatly from the published score. These "deviations" were preserved and became the basis of the revised version.

According to my *New Hess Catalog* (James Green, editor. It is available through Monument Records on the Internet), Hess 83 is a very short cadenza to the rondo of the 4th piano concerto, 6 bars.

I am not very fond of Bruckner. When I am not busy editing works by Joachim Eggert, I tend to listen to the symphonies by the "minor masters" (I did not coin that phrase!), namely Kraus, Raff, ries, and Czerny.


Hofrat

[Geratlas]

Dear Hofrat. - As for these "minor master's" (we ought to come up with a better phrase) I have not listened to any(!) of their works. Not even Carl Czerny's, whose works are said to be great. - I know very vaguely of Raff and his symphonies, but have never been up to buy them; I know only too little about them. What do they sound like? Can you compare his music to some other composer's? - What of Bruckner's symphonies have you heard? I suppose you have your opinions on the way he makes use of the themes, orchestra and development, however, I think the parts sum up effectively, and also with the inner movements corresponding excellent to their outers, they form a coherent work, as do the whole symphonies as a serie.
Well, that's for symphonies for now. - From what I so far have learned about the G major concerto, the final revision was not necessarily written out in its entirety, since these 'deviations' (of which I suppose portions may have been lost) provide us with little more than a 'basis'. If we are to believe Czerny's report (which I think we are safe to do), it would be interesting to know when this might have been. Only naturally it must have been some time after the work's publication in 1808 (let us have it in August), and thus unlikely before the its premiere at the grand concert in December, as he was usually did not reconsider his works for revision soon after they got published (and this at a time when he had hard work composing his choral Fantasia). In 1809 he begun to compose his great E flat concerto in earnest, and is thought to have written out the cadenzas for his five piano concertos that very summer. As the cadenzas for the G major concerto are now regularly played in performance with the published score of 1808 (I mean it seems most likely that they were simply added to THAT score, but what do I know), the material of the final revisions seem to stem from a still later date. What more can you say about the extant revision material; does it stem from one or more sources? What are there to date the manuscript? Also in 1809, though, the Pastoral Symphony, and the Choral Fantasia underwent (modest) revisions in 'final' scores obviously intended for soon publications which were in the end omitted. (Op.68 in 1809, and Op.80 in 1811.)
- You are right Only one cadenza to Hess 83 - the other cadenzas are (of course!) Hess 81 and 82.
I assume that the cadenzas (Hess 81,82, AND 83!) which are supposed to date from 1807, are liable to have been connected to the chamber version (is it fitting to call it transcription?) of the concerto of the same year. They might have been rejected on the spot they were notated, as they to my knowledge do not form part in the concerto. (Tricky question: Do you know if this chamber version got a specific catalog number?)
I am just in time to furnish my text (puh!) and send it before time's up. It'll have to do. Hope you'll cope. / sinc. G.

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Geratlas:
Dear Hofrat. - As for these "minor master's" (we ought to come up with a better phrase) I have not listened to any(!) of their works. Not even Carl Czerny's, whose works are said to be great. - I know very vaguely of Raff and his symphonies, but have never been up to buy them; I know only too little about them. What do they sound like? Can you compare his music to some other composer's? - What of Bruckner's symphonies have you heard? I suppose you have your opinions on the way he makes use of the themes, orchestra and development, however, I think the parts sum up effectively, and also with the inner movements corresponding excellent to their outers, they form a coherent work, as do the whole symphonies as a serie.

Dear Geratlas;

I have listened to many of Bruckner's symphonies. I am just not keen on them. None of them have the orchestrational brilliance of Raff's symphonies. You will not go wrong purchasing Raff.

Ries and Czerny are neglected symphonists due to the fact that their symphonic works were composed when Beethoven's symphonies became a norm. A critic wrote in 1829: "If a symphony came too close to Beethoven, it was rejected as an imitation; if it was too far removed from Beethoven, it had no appeal." Living in an atmosphere like that, it is understandable that Ries and Czerny did not receive the recogition they deserved. Again, you will not go wrong with them.

Kraus, a late 18th century composer, is very brilliant. He has been called "the Swedish Mozart" (such comparisons I do not like). The more I listened to Kraus, the more I bought.


Hofrat

[untamed_personality]

On this sunny Sunday, I'm currently listening to some lovely Haydn. One of my old 'Classical Collection' discs, featuring the Trumpet Concerto, 'Surprise' Symphony and the 'Emperor' Quartet.

One can't help but notice the similarity between the Trumpet's andante and the famous 'Emperor' adagio. Altogether now: "Coughs and sneezes..."

------------------
Seizing fate by the throat...

[Geratlas]

Dear Hofrat,
I will bear it in mind to not neglect Ries, Czerny, and Raff! Kraus seems much neglected here in Sweden. As was Berwald in his lifetime whose symphonies you might have heard.
If you feel up to answer some of my questions on LvB's 4th concerto, please do.
I do not want to push things on you, I am just so eager to know what you think of it.
Let me know, and I will take note! / regards Geratlas

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Geratlas:
Dear Hofrat,
Kraus seems much neglected here in Sweden. As was Berwald in his lifetime whose symphonies you might have heard.

I certainly do not understand how Kraus can be neglected when Kraus has an international association that is suppose to promote his artistry!! If I am not mistaken, there is an international association for Franz Berwald.

It is the other Swedish composers that do not have associations to look after them that concerns me, notably Joachim Eggert.


Hofrat