What are you listening to right now ?

[robert newman]

I'm currently listening to a wonderful live recording of Berlioz - 'Beatrice and Benedict' (London Symphony Orchestra with Sir Colin Davis) and next the marvellous 8th Symphony by Anton Bruckner.

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Geratlas:

Originally posted by Hofrat:
As I understand, the Inedita CD will be available in September 2005. [---] According to my copy of James F. Green's *New Hess Catalog*, Beethoven made some 70 pages of sketches for the first movement and started writing out in full score up until the middle of the of the soloist's exposition.
BTW, Professor Cook's manuscript of this realization is available and downloadable on the internet. And the good professor found someone to publish its first edition. Hofrat

August turns to September. I do not know about you, but I for certain like the ring to it. - 70 surviving pages of this concerto (with the working score accounted?) ought to represent a significant quantity of material. What can you tell of their content; are there for exemple sketches for following movement(s), however simple?

Again, James F. Green's *The New Hess Catalog* refers us to several articles about this unfinished piano concerto movement:

1. Lewis Lockwood, "Beethoven's Unfinished Concerto of 1815: Sources and Problems" in *The Creative World of Beethoven* edited by Paul Henry Lang, W.W.Norton, New York, 1971, pages 122-144.

2. Nicholas Cook, "Beethoven's Unfinished Piano Concerto: a Case of Double Vision?," *Journal of the American Musicological Society*, vol. 42 (1989), pages 338-374.

I am sorry that I do not have these articles. I hope you can find them.


Hofrat

[robert newman]

Berlioz 'Beatrice and Benedict' and also Bruckner's 8th Symphony.

(I think Berlioz was a phenomenal artist and as for Bruckner 8 - well, it's just marvellous).

[Geratlas]

Originally posted by Hofrat:
I am sorry that I do not have these articles. I hope you can find them. Hofrat

Thankyou kindly Hofrat for your efforts. I can always TRY to find the articles. If this concerto was indeed as ambitiously worked at by LvB as that of the famous in E-flat, it might be fascinating reading. - Could you please look for other unfinished works from in or around 1815? And tell me what you can learn about a neat Adagio (hess 297) if you do not mind. - / Best Wishes from Grateful Gratelas over to you :::

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Geratlas:

Originally posted by Hofrat:
I am sorry that I do not have these articles. I hope you can find them. Hofrat

Thankyou kindly Hofrat for your efforts. I can always TRY to find the articles. If this concerto was indeed as ambitiously worked at by LvB as that of the famous in E-flat, it might be fascinating reading. - Could you please look for other unfinished works from in or around 1815? And tell me what you can learn about a neat Adagio (hess 297) if you do not mind. - / Best Wishes from Grateful Gratelas over to you :::

May I suggest that you visit the Unheard Beethoven Site:
www.unheardbeethoven.org

There you can find a free downloadable MIDI file of Hess 15. It is not the best of qualities, but it will definitely give you the thrust of the piece.

As for Hess 297, try the abovementioned site. This Adagio in E-flat major for 3 horns dates from 1815. It is unpublished and can be found on page 7 of the Berlin Artaria Autograph 153. Thought to be an instrument study, this piece is complete in itself and could be printed without further annotation.


Hofrat

[Rod]

Originally posted by Hofrat:

May I suggest that you visit the Unheard Beethoven Site:
www.unheardbeethoven.org

There you can find a free downloadable MIDI file of Hess 15. It is not the best of qualities, but it will definitely give you the thrust of the piece.

As for Hess 297, try the abovementioned site. This Adagio in E-flat major for 3 horns dates from 1815. It is unpublished and can be found on page 7 of the Berlin Artaria Autograph 153. Thought to be an instrument study, this piece is complete in itself and could be printed without further annotation.


Hofrat

You seem interested in fragments and rareties Hofrat. Have you heard the Rondo Anh6? This is an amazing piece but I've only have seen one recording of it ever (which i have, By Ronald Brautigam). It's ownership is disputed but is sounds very Beethovenian to me.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Sorrano]

Tonight I am listening to a Haitink recording of the Bruckner 5th Symphony, coupled with the powerful Te Deum. Great listening!

[Geratlas]

Originally posted by Hofrat:
May I suggest that you visit the Unheard Beethoven Site: There you can find a free downloadable MIDI file of Hess 15. It is not the best of qualities, but it will definitely give you the thrust of the piece. Hofrat

Yes, Hofrat, thank you very much. I ought to tell you I have been there before and I think it is a superb site! Sadly I am not in position to download files and my time for use of the internet is actually restricted.
- No additional info on Hess 297 could be acquired from the UB site, and so your is the more welcome.
Could it be that I bore you with questions? (<-Question )
It would be interesting to hear your views on more rare works. May it be not only of LvB's. Dare I mention the Trio Concerto in D once more? / G. sending ~

[Geratlas]

Rod. I have heard the Rondo in B-flat (A6) as it is played by Buchbinder. It is said to date from about 1796, slightly earlier than the two Rondos of Opus 51. I do not know wherefrom its source stem. / G.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Geratlas:
Rod. I have heard the Rondo in B-flat (A6) as it is played by Buchbinder. It is said to date from about 1796, slightly earlier than the two Rondos of Opus 51. I do not know wherefrom its source stem. / G.

Well aparently the autograph of the music existed for its publication of the Urtext Beethoven edition during the '70s. I am surprised more recordings have not been made. The piece is a little more capricious than the Rondos you mention but stylistically i think it could come from that time. In some ways it reminds me of the Rondo a capriccio (Op.129) produced at the same period.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 08-24-2005).]

[JA Gardiner]

LVB 6th symphony -Kleiber who else? - sounding absolutely magnificent through my newly acquired noise cancelling Bose headphones. It really is like carrying my own orchestra around with me and on a miserable day like this I can use all the positive reinforcement I can get. Looking forward to roadtesting them on Mahler!

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Beethoven the Man!

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Geratlas:

Originally posted by Hofrat:
May I suggest that you visit the Unheard Beethoven Site: There you can find a free downloadable MIDI file of Hess 15. It is not the best of qualities, but it will definitely give you the thrust of the piece. Hofrat

Yes, Hofrat, thank you very much. I ought to tell you I have been there before and I think it is a superb site! Sadly I am not in position to download files and my time for use of the internet is actually restricted.
- No additional info on Hess 297 could be acquired from the UB site, and so your is the more welcome.
Could it be that I bore you with questions? (<-Question )
It would be interesting to hear your views on more rare works. May it be not only of LvB's. Dare I mention the Trio Concerto in D once more? / G. sending ~

Dear Geratlas;

First of all, you do not bore me with your questions. I am extremely busy with the editing of Joachim Eggert's works, so in may incidents I can not respond in a timely manner.

I truly enjoy the Beethoven rarities. You can find them in the most unusual places. For instance, one of my favorite CD's is Beethoven's 2nd and 4th piano concerti in a world premiere recording with Beethoven's final revisions (Conifer Classics 75605-51237-2 English Chamber Orchestra under Mackerras, Kazakevich on the piano).


Hofrat

[Rod]

Originally posted by Hofrat:

Dear Geratlas;

First of all, you do not bore me with your questions. I am extremely busy with the editing of Joachim Eggert's works, so in may incidents I can not respond in a timely manner.

I truly enjoy the Beethoven rarities. You can find them in the most unusual places. For instance, one of my favorite CD's is Beethoven's 2nd and 4th piano concerti in a world premiere recording with Beethoven's final revisions (Conifer Classics 75605-51237-2 English Chamber Orchestra under Mackerras, Kazakevich on the piano).


Hofrat

I am wondering if the revised music for the 4th in this recording comes from his chamber edition of the piece (i have not heard the CD)? In which case I would not necessarily regard the changes to the piano part as his final word on the concerto version. From what I've heard I think sometimes in the chamber edition he is perhaps 'filling in' the piano part to suit the new medium.

May I add that, at the end of the day, the fully composed music is ultimately more important than the fragments and sketches of what might have been, interesting thought these are.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin



[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 08-24-2005).]

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Rod:
I am wondering if the revised music for the 4th in this recording comes from his chamber edition of the piece (i have not heard the CD)?

NO!! It comes from Carl Czerny's report of the premiere of the 4th concerto on 22 December 1808. Czerny reported that Beethoven performed an unusually mischievous rendition (mutwillig in German), with many more notes than the printed edition that was published 4 months earlier. What Beethoven played is preserved in a manuscript copy of the concerto in the library of the Friends of Music Society.

As for the 2nd concerto, after the publication of the work, Beethoven prepared some 17 revisions that for some reason he never sent to the publisher.

I definitely think that the changes Beethoven made for the 2nd concerto results in a tighter and clearer composition.


Hofrat

[Joy]

Beethoven's 3rd Symphony, The Eroica!

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'Truth and beauty joined'