Rhythm difficulty...

[Zhire]

My teacher is sick in the hospital and I've started work on this piece we were going to work on but I have no idea as to how to go about playing these rhythms - I want to have started on it before he gets out. 11 eighth notes with an 11 above it...how do you count these - is it anything like triplets? The meter is 6/4 and there is a half note and a quarter note in the same measure as this 11 so I guess it's 11 notes to be played in the time of 3 beats but...11 into 3? They're also against 6 eighth notes so it's a cross-rhythm.

Ehm...I appreciate any help or...if there are any books anyone can recommend for learning about these weird rhythms..

Thanks in advance.


[This message has been edited by Zhire (edited 08-03-2005).]

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Zhire:
My teacher is sick in the hospital and I've started work on this piece we were going to work on but I have no idea as to how to go about playing these rhythms - I want to have started on it before he gets out. 11 eighth notes with an 11 above it...how do you count these - is it anything like triplets? The meter is 6/4 and there is a half note and a quarter note in the same measure as this 11 so I guess it's 11 notes to be played in the time of 3 beats but...11 into 3?
[This message has been edited by Zhire (edited 08-03-2005).]

Yes!! You must play 11 eighth notes in the time span of 6 eighth notes.

Hofrat

[Zhire]

How is that supposed to work though? If it were 18 I could just figure 3 eighth notes to each of the 6 eighth notes in the left hand but 11 doesn't go in evenly.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Zhire:
My teacher is sick in the hospital and I've started work on this piece we were going to work on but I have no idea as to how to go about playing these rhythms - I want to have started on it before he gets out. 11 eighth notes with an 11 above it...how do you count these - is it anything like triplets? The meter is 6/4 and there is a half note and a quarter note in the same measure as this 11 so I guess it's 11 notes to be played in the time of 3 beats but...11 into 3? They're also against 6 eighth notes so it's a cross-rhythm.

Ehm...I appreciate any help or...if there are any books anyone can recommend for learning about these weird rhythms..

Thanks in advance.


[This message has been edited by Zhire (edited 08-03-2005).]

A lot depends on the tempo and the melodic shape. The passage you are describing sounds to me like the Chopin nocturne Op.9 no.1. I would think the 11 as grouped 3+5+3 (the middle group being a written out turn). You should practice the hands separately but on no account attempt to divide the notes up to fit precisely by dividing 11/6 - only the first of the group and the first in the next bar have to be precise.

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'Man know thyself'

[Zhire]

Thanks so much for helping - I really appreciate it.

Originally posted by Peter:
The passage you are describing sounds to me like the Chopin nocturne Op.9 no.1.

Yes

I would think the 11 as grouped 3+5+3 (the middle group being a written out turn).

So should these 3's at the beginning and the end of the 11 be the same with the 5 in the middle faster? Are the two 3's triplets?

but on no account attempt to divide the notes up to fit precisely by dividing 11/6 - only the first of the group and the first in the next bar have to be precise.

By first of the group do you mean the first 3 in the 3-5-3 you described? What would be precise? 1) RH and LH together 2)RH then LH 3) RH ? Like triplets against eighths? 3s against 2s?

If I'm trying to fit the 11 eighths into the 6 should the first and last of the 11 eighth notes be together with the first and last of the 6 eighths notes in the left hand?

Thanks again.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Zhire:
Thanks so much for helping - I really appreciate it.

By first of the group do you mean the first 3 in the 3-5-3 you described? What would be precise? 1) RH and LH together 2)RH then LH 3) RH ? Like triplets against eighths? 3s against 2s?

If I'm trying to fit the 11 eighths into the 6 should the first and last of the 11 eighth notes be together with the first and last of the 6 eighths notes in the left hand?

Thanks again.

Only the first of the 11 needs to coincide exactly with the LH, followed by the first of the next group on the first beat of the bar. You shouldn't attempt to fit it by division, the RH should be fairly flexible against a strict LH. Practice the hands separately thinking the RH in 3+5+3 then having established a strict 6 in LH , put the two together - it should flow naturally!

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'Man know thyself'