Just a question about Beethoven

[jjligman]

I was just curious if anyone knows anything about the eight circuit model of the brain??? Anyways the average human runs on the first four. Beethoven was said to be able to easily access the fifth circuit which deals with things like constant bliss (some believe that tantric sex, meditation, and marijuana may be means of temporarily accessing this circuit) I have read that Beethoven's music was about what he felt while using this circuit then coming back and using his third circuit (deals with time-binding properties, being aware of our mortality, writing down history, etc.) This is why when referring to his later mucis he said if anyone truly understands my music they will never be sad again. (read in Prometheous Rising by Robert Anton Wilson) My question is just if anyone has any clue what I am talking about and could elaborate on all of it I would appreciate it.

-JOSH-

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[Droell]

Originally posted by jjligman:
I was just curious if anyone knows anything about the eight circuit model of the brain??? Anyways the average human runs on the first four. Beethoven was said to be able to easily access the fifth circuit which deals with things like constant bliss (some believe that tantric sex, meditation, and marijuana may be means of temporarily accessing this circuit) I have read that Beethoven's music was about what he felt while using this circuit then coming back and using his third circuit (deals with time-binding properties, being aware of our mortality, writing down history, etc.) This is why when referring to his later mucis he said if anyone truly understands my music they will never be sad again. (read in Prometheous Rising by Robert Anton Wilson) My question is just if anyone has any clue what I am talking about and could elaborate on all of it I would appreciate it.

-JOSH-

I can't say that I've read the theory. It was the basis of a book by Bruce Scofield that I stock, but wasn't impressed with. A lot of people have spent a lot of time inventing their own psychologies. As Timothy Leary was co-inventor of the 8-circuit thing & as he spent a lot of time on acid (so I hear), I suppose I shouldn't dismiss it outright.

But what if all this Freud & Jung & circuits & such, were transferred to music. What if, instead of learning the scale & the notes & how to play piano, what if would-be musicians simply made stuff up, to suit themselves? What would music sound like (Rap?) & could we ever get from there to, say, Bruckner? Having had some training in this area (clairvoyance, etc.), when I look back at Robert Anton Wilson's circuits, I think that's a fair comparison.

Beethoven's exact degree of clairvoyance, and his awareness of it, has long interested me. To me it seems clear he had some way of objectively evaluating the precise effect of his improvisations on his audiences. Which he then incorporated into his early works (sonatas & violin/piano sonatas in particular) before finally perfecting them in his orchestral writing - the 5th symphony above all. I have, in fact, suggested to those mad about "creative visualization" that they use the finale of the 5th symphony, as I believe - after more than 40 years study - that it was written for no other purpose than to manipulate the audience: A showcase of his talents.

Myself, I learned theosophy. Learned how to work with theosophical concepts, such as chakras, rays, levels of development, astral sheathing, etheric energies, etc. Consciousness is the result of the interplay of various chakras, their size, color, speed of rotation, interconnectedness, etc. Average, underdeveloped chakras produce average, underdeveloped people, which is most of us. The average rich guy has a particular sort of chakra development to thank for his riches, just as the average intellectual has a different - and largely incompatible - chakra development for his ideas. Opera singers have their own development (throat & solar plexus chakras fused together, if you wanted to know). I personally know, or rather, used to know, clairvoyants who could answer questions such as, how clairvoyant Beethoven was & what that meant as far as his chakra development was concerned. Myself, I have toyed with the idea that B could see music. I myself can see it somewhat in the back of my head.

Wish I still knew those guys. We could have fun bouncing questions off their heads, then taking the answers & seeing if they made sense or not. (They don't always.) And then asking another round of questions, etc. We might answer the Ultimate Question (oh, sorry, that's Doug Adams) or we might fall on our faces. That's what's fun about life. Throwing out crazy ideas, seeing what happens.

[This message has been edited by Droell (edited 08-01-2005).]

[jjligman]

Originally posted by Droell:

I can't say that I've read the theory. It was the basis of a book by Bruce Scofield that I stock, but wasn't impressed with. A lot of people have spent a lot of time inventing their own psychologies. As Timothy Leary was co-inventor of the 8-circuit thing & as he spent a lot of time on acid (so I hear), I suppose I shouldn't dismiss it outright.

But what if all this Freud & Jung & circuits & such, were transferred to music. What if, instead of learning the scale & the notes & how to play piano, what if would-be musicians simply made stuff up, to suit themselves? What would music sound like (Rap?) & could we ever get from there to, say, Bruckner? Having had some training in this area (clairvoyance, etc.), when I look back at Robert Anton Wilson's circuits, I think that's a fair comparison.

Beethoven's exact degree of clairvoyance, and his awareness of it, has long interested me. To me it seems clear he had some way of objectively evaluating the precise effect of his improvisations on his audiences. Which he then incorporated into his early works (sonatas & violin/piano sonatas in particular) before finally perfecting them in his orchestral writing - the 5th symphony above all. I have, in fact, suggested to those mad about "creative visualization" that they use the finale of the 5th symphony, as I believe - after more than 40 years study - that it was written for no other purpose than to manipulate the audience: A showcase of his talents.

Myself, I learned theosophy. Learned how to work with theosophical concepts, such as chakras, rays, levels of development, astral sheathing, etheric energies, etc. Consciousness is the result of the interplay of various chakras, their size, color, speed of rotation, interconnectedness, etc. Average, underdeveloped chakras produce average, underdeveloped people, which is most of us. The average rich guy has a particular sort of chakra development to thank for his riches, just as the average intellectual has a different - and largely incompatible - chakra development for his ideas. Opera singers have their own development (throat & solar plexus chakras fused together, if you wanted to know). I personally know, or rather, used to know, clairvoyants who could answer questions such as, how clairvoyant Beethoven was & what that meant as far as his chakra development was concerned. Myself, I have toyed with the idea that B could see music. I myself can see it somewhat in the back of my head.

Wish I still knew those guys. We could have fun bouncing questions off their heads, then taking the answers & seeing if they made sense or not. (They don't always.) And then asking another round of questions, etc. We might answer the Ultimate Question (oh, sorry, that's Doug Adams) or we might fall on our faces. That's what's fun about life. Throwing out crazy ideas, seeing what happens.

[This message has been edited by Droell (edited 08-01-2005).]

True Timothy Leory did use acid quite a bit, more so after his work on the eight circuit model. He thought that people could be propelled onto higher circuits though acid or chemical means or "find true enlightenment" as he told millions. Obviously he didn't quite hit the nail on the head with that one, but hey to each his own. Anyways, thanks for the insight, it's greatly appreciated. I am writing a lengthy paper on religious philosophy geared towards the minds of religious figures and the eight-circuit model. Trying to win a philosophy award. Gonna be alot of reading and research but I intend to tie it all together. I was just hoping to use Beethoven in it a bit if I could find enough evidence to support the claim that he wrote his music about the sublime feelings he felt on higher circuits and tried to share and express them through his gift of music. Don't know if I will find any valid evidence but we'll see. Thanks again!

-JOSH-

[Droell]

Originally posted by jjligman:
I am writing a lengthy paper on religious philosophy geared towards the minds of religious figures and the eight-circuit model. Trying to win a philosophy award. Gonna be alot of reading and research but I intend to tie it all together. I was just hoping to use Beethoven in it a bit if I could find enough evidence to support the claim that he wrote his music about the sublime feelings he felt on higher circuits and tried to share and express them through his gift of music. Don't know if I will find any valid evidence but we'll see. Thanks again!

-JOSH-

I tell you this from my own experience: What you seek can be known, but you will need some first-class clairvoyant help. Presuming you can find it, you will still need to be trained (in something better than a pathetic 8-circuit model) or you will need a clairvoyant who is himself/herself trained. Does no good to have the tool (the clairvoyant) if you don't know how to use it. Preferably both of you should be trained & seasoned in this kind of research.

You will probably need a lot more besides. It would help if one or the other of you were a reincarnate friend of Beethoven, as there are many levels you cannot reach unless you are. Lacking this, you might visit the places he lived, his grave, and if you can, handle any of his possessions or purchase one of his autographs - which is only slightly less hard than finding someone reincarnate.

The result will not be a paper. The result will be private between you, your associate, and Beethoven himself. At best, you might write it into a novel of some sort. And it might easily take decades. If it is a consuming goal of your life, then it may be that you already have one or more of the essential criteria. I have no way of knowing. Or you may merely be a fool.

Site Administrator Peter will think this is all quite silly, and he would be right to think so.