Authentic page mp3s - Sonatas for fortepiano Op.78 & Op.79

[Peter]

Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

I do have two versions of the Fantasia op77 but they are unacceptably bad interpretations and not worthy of being associated with my name, so I moved on to 78 and 79 together to make some progress.

With the current mp3s, the track from op78 is exellent, just about perfect. Op79's andante is an ok performance, nothing special. With the other movements from these pieces Komen is too leisurely. The Presto from 79 should be really lively.

The (original) fortepiano is a very good one.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 05-17-2005).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
I do have two versions of the Fantasia op77 but they are unacceptably bad interpretations and not worthy of being associated with my name, so I moved on to 78 and 79 together to make some progress.

With the current mp3s, the track from op78 is exellent, just about perfect. Op79's andante is an ok performance, nothing special. With the other movements from these pieces Komen is too leisurely. The Presto from 79 should be really lively.

The (original) fortepiano is a very good one.

I was wondering what happened to the excellent fantasia! I disagree that the presto of op.79 should be very lively - what matters here is the alla tedesca mark. I like Op.78 presented here - this was the first piece I heard on original instruments about 20 years ago and I didn't like it then!

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 05-17-2005).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I was wondering what happened to the excellent fantasia! I disagree that the presto of op.79 should be very lively - what matters here is the alla tedesca mark. I like Op.78 presented here - this was the first piece I heard on original instruments about 20 years ago and I didn't like it then!

I can't present unacceptable music in the name of completeness. One version is performed throughout at half tempo, the other (by Tan on Beethoven's Broadwood) is simply a mess. I'm trying to promote period instruments not turn people off! But Brautigam is recording the complete piano music on fp so perhaps one day a good version of the fantasia will present itself.

The quicker I have heard the op79 Presto the better it sounds from my experience, on any piano, this does not conflict with the 'alla tedesca' qualification ('in the German manner'). Usually I hear something akin to a normal allegro tempo for this piece.

The 78 track is very quirky and difficult to realise I think. This recording is the only version of I have ever heard that satisfies my severe critical faculty.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin



[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 05-18-2005).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
I can't present unacceptable music in the name of completeness. One version is performed throughout at half tempo, the other (by Tan on Beethoven's Broadwood) is simply a mess. I'm trying to promote period instruments not turn people off! But Brautigam is recording the complete piano music on fp so perhaps one day a good version of the fantasia will present itself.

The quicker I have heard the op79 Presto the better it sounds from my experience, on any piano, this does not conflict with the 'alla tedesca' qualification ('in the German manner'). Usually I hear something akin to a normal allegro tempo for this piece.

The 78 track is very quirky and difficult to realise I think. This recording is the only version of I have ever heard that satisfies my severe critical faculty.

The Tedesca was a dance that suggested the tempo of a lively waltz. I'm sure you would agree that the Tedesca from Op.130 shouldn't be played as fast as you like Op.79?

The presto merely means quick, in other words he is emphasing that it is the tempo of a quick dance. These Italian terms can mean different things in different contexts, which is one reason Beethoven went through a period of not using them.

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'Man know thyself'



[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 05-19-2005).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
The Tedesca was a dance that suggested the tempo of a lively waltz. I'm sure you would agree that the Tedesca from Op.130 shouldn't be played as fast as you like Op.79?

The presto merely means quick, in other words he is emphasing that it is the tempo of a quick dance. These Italian terms can mean different things in different contexts, which is one reason Beethoven went through a period of not using them.

A Beethoven allegro is quick in itself, a presto is quicker still. Rember the tempo is Presto alla tedesca, not Tedesca alla presto!

With op130 the tempo is allegro assai. The recording i have by the Bartok quartet is very fast. Of course it depends whether to take the 'assai' as 'very' or 'rather'.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 05-19-2005).]

[Joy]

Originally posted by Peter:


These Italian terms can mean different things in different contexts, which is one reason Beethoven went through a period of not using them.

What kind of markings did he substitute for them during this time?



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'Truth and beauty joined'

[ruudp]

Originally posted by Joy:
What kind of markings did he substitute for them during this time?

As I recall he used german markings, Etwas lebhaft, nicht zu geschwind, Mit empfindung etc.
Regards,
Ruud

Btw.Loved the recording of the op.79 andante. The op.78 sometimes seemed a bit unclear, some of the notes seemed to be missing in the rage other then that perfect.

[This message has been edited by ruudp (edited 05-19-2005).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by ruudp:
The op.78 sometimes seemed a bit unclear, some of the notes seemed to be missing in the rage other then that perfect.

Not sure what you mean, but there is too much emphasis placed on clarity, especially when it comes at the expense of the dramatic effect. Beethoven shouldn't sound 'pretty'.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 05-20-2005).]

[ruudp]

Originally posted by Rod:
Not sure what you mean, but there is too much emphasis placed on clarity, especially when i comes at the expense of the dramatic effect. Beethoven shouldn't sound 'pretty'.

hmm..I see your point...I was indeed referring to clarity, but you´re right about the dramatic effect, that´s why I said I loved the performance overall.

[PaulC]

This is the first time I've heard them, having started to buy recordings of everything I could lay my hands on (when my pockets allow me)
Fresh and invigorating. At once uplifting and somehow tranquil. The 78 and 79 opus' are wonderful, wunderbar even if i may try german for a moment (sorry if it's not the right spelling though).
Miniature masterpieces, meticulously crafted. I will be back next week for the following instalment.