BBC Radio 3 "Beethoven Experience"

[Suflex]

Mozart's music is PERFECT in every sense, like some one posted before, it is the most logical and 'seemingly' simple answer to a mathematical equation, but I think that by this very perfection Mozart becomes unattainable, you can only listen in awe of such a dazzling almost inhuman higher level of intelligence, Thankfull that it existed.

In Beethoven I can hear a human bieng straining to attain perfection, it is a quality beyond mere notes that defines Beethoven's music, the epitome of the imperfect...

[Michael]

Getting back to the original subject of this thread, jdidlock has mentioned elsewhere that there seems to be a distinct lack of enthusiasm about the upcoming “Beethoven Experience” on Radio 3. Although I will admit it’s a bit difficult to discuss something that hasn’t yet happened, I entirely agree with you, jdidlock! We are continually moaning and groaning in this forum about how much Beethoven’s unfamiliar works are neglected and now it appears they are playing the bloody lot!
I am always pleased to hear any Beethoven on radio as I know that many other people may be listening as well – maybe for the first time – and I still have the urge to shout about Beethoven from the rooftops as I did when I first discovered him.
I think the Beethoven Experience will be a great success because the music is so varied. For example, if you tune into Radio 3 at, say, 7 a.m. on Wednesday, 8th June next, you will get the following programme:

Grenadier March for Mechanical Clock.
“Primo Amore” (aria).
Rondo in B flat (WoO6).
“Leonore Prohaska” music which includes a melodrama for glass harmonica.
Electoral Sonata No. 1 (played by Gilels).
Violin Sonata in A.
Trio for two oboes and Cor Anglais.
String Trio in G, opus 9, No.1.

Which will bring you up to 10 a.m.and much more to come. A casual listener might not be aware that it was all the work of one composer!

If you prefer television, Peter, the three part documentary simply entitled “Beethoven” starts on BBC 2 on Friday, June 3rd at 9pm and is continued on the following two Fridays. Each time, this is immediately followed on BBC 4 by “Beethoven Uncovered” in which the Mozart-loving Charles Hazelwood rehearses and conducts many works.
Another documentary “Beethoven’s Hair” will be shown on BBC 2 on Tues 14th June at 11.20pm.
In fact, BBC 4 is gone Beethoven mad for the month of June:
30th May : Barenboim on Beethoven followed by a repeat of “Eroica”.
1st June : Violin concerto with Yehudi Menuhin.
On Saturday 4th, 11th and 18th Beethoven symphonies.
25th June, Perahia plays piano concertos 1 to 5 (that’s what the BBC says, anyway).
Even Lyric FM, Ireland’s only classical music station has cancelled all its usual evening programmes and is broadcasting a live “Beethovenfest” all this week!
And not an anniversary in sight!

Michael

[Rod]

Originally posted by Suflex:
Mozart's music is PERFECT in every sense, like some one posted before, it is the most logical and 'seemingly' simple answer to a mathematical equation, but I think that by this very perfection Mozart becomes unattainable, you can only listen in awe of such a dazzling almost inhuman higher level of intelligence, Thankfull that it existed.

In Beethoven I can hear a human bieng straining to attain perfection, it is a quality beyond mere notes that defines Beethoven's music, the epitome of the imperfect...

Composing 'perfect music' is too easy and not necessarily good on the ear. I have mentioned before how the architects of the Parthenon had to distort the dimentions and of the columns to make it look 'as if' perfect by viewers on the ground. Purely 'perfect' mathematics is not enough on its own, you have to be cleverer still to produce the ultimate art! That is what makes Beethoven a cut above Mozart.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Michael:

If you prefer television, Peter, the three part documentary simply entitled “Beethoven” starts on BBC 2 on Friday, June 3rd at 9pm and is continued on the following two Fridays. Each time, this is immediately followed on BBC 4 by “Beethoven Uncovered” in which the Mozart-loving Charles Hazelwood rehearses and conducts many works.
Another documentary “Beethoven’s Hair” will be shown on BBC 2 on Tues 14th June at 11.20pm.
In fact, BBC 4 is gone Beethoven mad for the month of June:
30th May : Barenboim on Beethoven followed by a repeat of “Eroica”.
1st June : Violin concerto with Yehudi Menuhin.
On Saturday 4th, 11th and 18th Beethoven symphonies.
25th June, Perahia plays piano concertos 1 to 5 (that’s what the BBC says, anyway).
Even Lyric FM, Ireland’s only classical music station has cancelled all its usual evening programmes and is broadcasting a live “Beethovenfest” all this week!
And not an anniversary in sight!

Michael

Excellent Michael - I shall indeed look forward to these programmes!

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'Man know thyself'

[Uniqor]

Rod, I just read your last post, it seems to me that you were trying to say that Beethoven is better. As you may know, I was in some way trying to say the contrary. My problem is this: the issues and ideas I raised's never been addressed; yours on the other hand, I've already have and argued over them in rather lengthy, curly content - you aren't furthering the arguements and left me hanging in the air.

Regarding this situation I can only make two conclusion: 1. you think my ideas are too crazy to be argued; 2. you can't be bothered to argue with me for some reason other than the above 1.

Not meaning to be a big mouth, but after some serious and continous posting here, I guess I just want to know where the finishing point is.

(Can't believe how thick I must be to ask for some reply, for a second time!)

[This message has been edited by Uniqor (edited 05-12-2005).]

[urtextmeister]

Maybe you need to restate these ideas that have not been fully addressed.

Rod,
Your comment about Mozart being too perfect...


I see Mozart as perfect. But in the sense that a flower is perfect. You could not change it or improve it. If you tried, you would destroy what it is. You would destroy it's essence.

I don't think Mozart is perfect like a good accountant is perfect or my neighbor's hedges are perfect.

All of this arguing is fun, but I suspect that most will go to our graves without coming close to understanding the greatness of either the Jupiter or the Eroica.

There. I said it.

[Uniqor]

My point about Mozart is as clear as water really:

His music is overflowing with the raw beauty of the day-to-day humanity, thus he pushed the limit of using sound as a means to express the deepest and sincerest human conscious, to an extent which no composer hitherto has surpassed.

If this is said to be an unfair judgment on the greats such as Beethoven, then it's yet to be argued over here.

That's all. I think I've already done my part of the arguement. But sadly, for some reason it's not been carried forward.

btw, if you say that Mozart is perfect, you'll need to define what's perfect music and to demostrate how exactly he is... Otherwise, it's all empty and vague one-off comment. And about the greatness of the Jupiter, I've already tried to say that it lies in the greatness of its composer - the humanity as Peter well defined.

[This message has been edited by Uniqor (edited 05-13-2005).]

[urtextmeister]

One thing I have learned about posting on the internet is that you rarely get the type of response you want (assuming you get any response at all).

I certainly wouldn't argue with the above--Mozart/humanity/unsurpassed, etc. And I won't take the bait and say "Beethoven is better."

That sort of clash of the titans is pointless. What is sometimes interesting is to try to understand the differences between these great composers.

I was not the one to come up with the term "perfection." I was merely trying to counter Rod's attempt to use that against Mozart.

But now that I am stuck with it, I don't think it needs much more definition. I believe I said that Mozart is the sort of perfection that cannot be changed or improved without changing its very essence.

In other words whereas Mozart might be like a short lyric poem that has just the right words, Beethoven might be like an epic poem or even a novel--a few words could be changed and the greatness would still be there.

[Uniqor]

Yeah, the difference between the composers is all I tried to find. Anyway, thanks for the reply, I'm glad that you like Mozart's "huimanity" as well - that's about all there is for my point.