Copying Beethoven - Ed Harris

[Peter]

Originally posted by srivele:
Thanks. I think it is only fair to warn you that there is a lot of humor in the film, and some of it is quite vulgar. Our idea of Beethoven is of a man who lived a very human life, drinking with his friends, making vulgar jokes, and also a sublime, spiritual life. So we are hoping that the jokes and vulgarity will contrast with the transcendent music to create a three-dimensional portrait.

You won't offend me either - he has to be shown warts and all! Beethoven was coarse in manners and enjoyed a few dirty jokes - humour is essential in a film of this sort. Bringing out this side of his character will make him more approachable to an audience (especially a younger audience)who will mostly be unfamiliar with his music. We do not need our geniuses dressed up as in the 19th century as saints!

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'Man know thyself'

[Amalie]

Originally posted by srivele:
Thanks. I think it is only fair to warn you that there is a lot of humor in the film, and some of it is quite vulgar. Our idea of Beethoven is of a man who lived a very human life, drinking with his friends, making vulgar jokes, and also a sublime, spiritual life. So we are hoping that the jokes and vulgarity will contrast with the transcendent music to create a three-dimensional portrait.

Steve,
Yes, our Ludwig certainly possessed a rich fund of humour and castigated anything he despised with a pungent sarcasm!

Like Mozart, Beethoven also occasionaly
indulged in some scatological word play, for example:
At the bottom of page 166 of his copy of the August 1825 music journal 'Cacilia, under the negative critique of Wellingtons Siege, by Gottfried Weber, Beethoven scribbled, "Ah, you mean bastard, my shit is more superior to anything you have ever thought".

***

Modling June, 1818 -
In a letter from Beethoven to Vinzenz Hauschka, then director of the Vienna Society of the Friends of Music.
Towards the close of this letter, Beethoven signs off by bidding Hauschka:

"Now farewell dearest Hauschkerl. I wish you a regular movement of the bowels and the most beautiful of privies".





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~ Courage, so it be righteous, will gain all things ~




[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited 01-28-2005).]

[Joy]

Ah, yes, our wonderful, lovable, sarcastic, sometimes vulgar Beethoven! I won't be offended either. I'm glad to see someone is going to portray him as a real man with all the qualities (good and bad) of most people.
He might have been difficult to live with but when you hear his music you know he had a great heart!!

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[CaptainStigmata]

Mr. Rivele,

Are you "allowed" to tell us who some of the other actors in the film are? Or have they not been cast?

(Please ignore any bad grammar or misspellings, I'm not very good at English.)

[srivele]

Originally posted by CaptainStigmata:
Mr. Rivele,

Are you "allowed" to tell us who some of the other actors in the film are? Or have they not been cast?

(Please ignore any bad grammar or misspellings, I'm not very good at English.)

Casting takes place in London in two weeks' time. When I know the results I'll post them. We need to cast Schlemmer, the Archduke, Shuppanzigh, Karl and about a dozen other smaller parts, including two women. Any suggestions? Because of funding requirements, all the actors have to be British.

[Chris]

You should also cast Rob Schneider as Beethoven's wacky sidekick, who sometimes thinks he's a piano. He could act crazy and have a bunch of one-liners. It would be great.

And by "great," I mean the worst idea in cinema history.

[cosplusisin]

about the soundtrack:

i'm wondering if maybe the really well-known pieces (like moonlight sonata 1st movement, 5th symphony first movement, 9th symphony 4th movement) may take away from the mood, because when the average person goes to see it, the whole flow of the movie will be interrupted by the fact that they're hearing something they know so well and probably hear on a furniture advertisment recently. i'm sure there's almost no way of getting around hearing the "ode to joy", but i almost think it would be better to watch a movie of this type without it. my own input for soundtrack suggestions (Beethoven works):

5th symphony - 2nd and 3rd movements
"pastorale" piano sonata - first movement
"appassionata" piano sonata - first movement
9th symphony - FIRST MOVEMENT (maybe the greatest pice of music ever written)

and you've already got the late quartetes and piano sonatas taken care of, as you said eariler.

another thing, and i don't know if this is a good suggestion or not, but maybe you should try to avoid too many things that were in "immortal beloved" just so as not to be compared... while it is so so so beautiful, the second movement of the 7th symphony was so overdone in that movie, that i couldn't listen to it for a while after i watched that movie (the ghost trio was in that movie too).

and for the same reasons as i said at the beginning, i'm quite glad no one has suggested "fur elise".

EDIT: I forgot one more suggestion... for those immenely sad moments, how could you go wrong with the 2nd movement of the 3rd symphony (the funeral march)?

[This message has been edited by cosplusisin (edited 01-30-2005).]

[Michael]

I think someone suggested this earlier, but the "Three Equali for four Trombones" would be very effective, especially the first one. The movie "Immortal Beloved" (if I may dare mention it)should really have opened with this music as a vocal arrangement of one of those Equali was actually sung at Beethoven's funeral.
It is tempting to suggest that only the music of the late quartets should be used in this new film but I think this transcendental music should never be used as background to anything.
Michael

[Peter]

Originally posted by srivele:

Casting takes place in London in two weeks' time. When I know the results I'll post them. We need to cast Schlemmer, the Archduke, Shuppanzigh, Karl and about a dozen other smaller parts, including two women. Any suggestions? Because of funding requirements, all the actors have to be British.

Michael kitchen - Schlemmer
Nicholas Jones - Archduke Rudolph
Robbie Coltrane - Schuppanzigh

Just a thought!

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'Man know thyself'

[aloysia]

According to Schindler, after the first performance of the Ninth Symphony, upon receiving the box-office report, Beethoven collapsed, and refused to eat or drink anything, he was so dejected.

After the second performance, although he had been guaranteed a sum of 500 florins CM, the performance generated a defecit, and he at first refused to accept the sum, he was so "deeply pained at the unexpected rebuff."

Later, feeling he must show his appreciation for their participation in the two performances, he invited Schindler, Schuppanzigh, and Umlauf to dinner at the tavern, Zum wilden Mann, where he was anything but cordial. He accused Schindler and Duport, the theater manager of cheating him. When the others tried to dissuade him to no avail, Schindler and Umlauf left. They were soon followed by Schuppanzigh, after he too, became the recipient of his wrath. As Schindler tells it: "The furious master was left to vent his spleen on the waiters and the ceiling beams and to eat the elaborate meal alone in the company of his nephew."

[Johan]

Originally posted by srivele:

Actually the film starts with the 9th, then moves on to the last period. The bulk of it actually covers the last year and a half (we compress time somewhat), and focuses on the composing of the last string quartets. My hope is to bring this music - which I consider the highest achievement of our civilization - to the general audience, which does not know it at all, I think.

The last string quartets ARE the highest achievement of our western civilization!

The idea of taking comic side of Beethoven is certainly good, but it should not distract us from his tragic sides and him taking much very seriously. One should also think how Vienna was in years 1825-1827. Certainly not very liberal - in manners either. I feel the danger of too much comic making the side his friends felt as noble - his great heart and immediacy - also seem comic!
Of course this is a question of the perspective you are taking, since one can for example make seriousness and the noble seem ridiculous.
All good wishes!

(cosplusisin! Yes, the 1st movement of the Ninth is the one orchestral movement being perfect.)

[JA Gardiner]

If you want some British talent that is known in the States ( and doesn't come from the Richard Curtis rom-com stable - though I'd take Alan Rickman in anything!) and your budget will run to it how about Tom Wilkinson as the Archduke or Sean Bean(who has done a lot of period work)as one of the younger characters. Pete Postlethwaite woud also be magnificently watchable and it would be good to see him cast as an aristocratic type for once. On the less expensive side you could do worse than watch the BBC's latest historical production - North and South - which had some splendid actors in it, the young female and male leads were particularly good. If you need some singing from a male character there's an ex-RSC actor, Russell Boulter ( short, dark, dramatic) who has done a lot of stage work including leading in Blood Brothers and more recent rougher roles in a couple of v. popular TV series over here. And of course you did mention Peter O'Toole who would be magnet enough to bring in anyone you want..... Just please no Hugh Grant or Colin Firth!

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Beethoven the Man!

[Peter]

Originally posted by JA Gardiner:
If you want some British talent that is known in the States ( and doesn't come from the Richard Curtis rom-com stable - though I'd take Alan Rickman in anything!) and your budget will run to it how about Tom Wilkinson as the Archduke or Sean Bean(who has done a lot of period work)as one of the younger characters. Pete Postlethwaite woud also be magnificently watchable and it would be good to see him cast as an aristocratic type for once. On the less expensive side you could do worse than watch the BBC's latest historical production - North and South - which had some splendid actors in it, the young female and male leads were particularly good. If you need some singing from a male character there's an ex-RSC actor, Russell Boulter ( short, dark, dramatic) who has done a lot of stage work including leading in Blood Brothers and more recent rougher roles in a couple of v. popular TV series over here. And of course you did mention Peter O'Toole who would be magnet enough to bring in anyone you want..... Just please no Hugh Grant or Colin Firth!

And how about the excellent Albert Finney.

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'Man know thyself'

[JA Gardiner]

Originally posted by Peter:

And how about the excellent Albert Finney.

Oh yes! And if you wanted to avoid our usual Gosford Park/Harry Potter regulars but were looking for older character actors who could be wickedly funny if required, but are wonderfully gifted and serious professionals who its a crime have not been properly used on film hitherto, you could do a lot worse than Robert Lindsay, David Jason or Warren Clarke - each very individual and very versatile. Come to think of it the latter does have something of a look of LVB in his latter and fatter days and could certainly do the broad German humour!

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Beethoven the Man!

[Peter]

Originally posted by JA Gardiner:
Oh yes! And if you wanted to avoid our usual Gosford Park/Harry Potter regulars but were looking for older character actors who could be wickedly funny if required, but are wonderfully gifted and serious professionals who its a crime have not been properly used on film hitherto, you could do a lot worse than Robert Lindsay, David Jason or Warren Clarke - each very individual and very versatile. Come to think of it the latter does have something of a look of LVB in his latter and fatter days and could certainly do the broad German humour!

Well Beethoven is already well cast so WC may have to settle for Schuppanzigh, though either Ian McNeice or Robbie Coltrane would amply fill this role!

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'Man know thyself'