Copying Beethoven - Ed Harris

[Rutradelusasa]

How was the Grosse Fugue received?

Not well. Some friend(s) of his said it was a marvelous thing and that the audience wasn't prepared for such a piece. It was the last movement of the Op.130 (I guess) quartet. Beethoven himself learned from the public reaction (not good) and from the critics (less good) that the piece was too long and without meaning, just some long bunch of notes. So he prefered to release it as a separate piece.

------------------
"Wer ein holdes weib errungen..."

[Chris]

Originally posted by sjrivele:
I have been trying to post messages for some time now without success. I take it there have been problems with the site. I hope this one works.

(Well, I just had to re-register because the site wouldn't accept my ID and password. I'll try this again...)

Yes, we had some problems, as my hosting company was bought, and there was a transition period. Some accounts were corrupted (yours included), and this thread got a little messed up, but I think I have it all straightened up now.

To limit confusion, I have restored your original username (srevile) and deleted the sjrivele account. Your password is the same as it was on the sjrevile account.

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 01-25-2005).]

[srivele]

Originally posted by KyleC:
looked up this movie and got this:

Synopsis: Centers on the love and obsession that Ludwig van Beethoven developed for his assistant while he was working on his 'Symphony No. 9'.

im a little concerned about this. is this falling in love historical facts or just a way of bringing in a love story? it still seems good but im curious, could you give us an in depth synopsis. thanks. oh and good luck with everything! this movie is going to be great i know it!

[This message has been edited by KyleC (edited 01-25-2005).]

Thanks. I don't know how that synopsis got started, but I have been trying to correct it. However, once it gets into the mainstream, it's very hard to undo. A more accurate synopsis would be: The story of a young Vienna Conservatory student, the fictional Anna Holtz (Diane Kruger), who becomes Beethoven's (Ed Harris) copyist in his late period, and who derives from the dying composer the courage to become an artist in her own right.

There is no passionate love story, no sexual obsession - if there were, it wouldn't have taken us two years to raise the money to make the film.

[Chris]

Originally posted by srivele:
There is no passionate love story, no sexual obsession - if there were, it wouldn't have taken us two years to raise the money to make the film.

Ha! Sad and funny at the same time.

[Joy]

Originally posted by sjrivele:

One or two questions:

Was the Karntnertor Theater lighted by gas in 1824?

How many musicians and choir members performed at the 9th Symphony premiere?
How were the members of the choir dressed?

Has anyone learned where Schlemmer's office/rooms were located and what they looked like?

Was Beethoven's Broadwood piano "cut off at the knees" so that he could feel the vibrations, or is this just a myth?

Ed and Diane are currently taking piano and conducting lessons. Any thoughts on Beethoven's conducting style?

With thanks as ever for the wonderful input and support, SR

[/B]

Glad to have you back! I believe that gas lamps were in use in the 1820's in Europe so the theatre would have been lit by this method.

The Ninth Symphony is scored for piccolo, 2 flutes, 2 oboes, 2 clarinets, 2 bassoons, contrabassoon, 4 horns, 2 trumpets, 3 trombones, timpani, triangle, cymbals, bass drum, a string section consisting of the usual first and second violins, violas, cellos, double basses, four vocal soloists (soprano, alto, tenor, bass), and a chorus singing in four parts (soprano, alto, tenor, bass). These are by far the largest forces needed for any Beethoven symphony; at the premiere Beethoven expanded them further by assigning two players to each wind part. I once read that there were 128 choir members for this performance. As for their dress I have never read anything about this besides what Beethoven was wearing while conducting. Since the conductor usually was in black perhaps the musicians had to wear black as well. Only a guess though.

As for Schlemmer's office. Maybe Peter can help you on this one. He might have a picture of it in one of his books. He has the most books on Beethoven than anyone I know!

The piano's legs being 'cut off' was probably so when Beethoven moved, as he did frequently, it was easier. They were not actually cut off but removed for easy transport.

His conducting was explained by Ignaz von Seyfried, "Our master was by no means a model conductor, trying to achieve the desired effect through diverse gesticulations. He would give a downbeat where an upbeat was expected. To indicate a diminuendo, he shrank and when the pianonissimo came, he was almost invisible. To indicate a crescendo, he rose up. He seemed like a giant rowing wth his two arms, trying to reach the skies. With increasing deafness the situation deteriorated." I also believe he only conducted using his hands never a baton.

------------------
'Truth and beauty joined'

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited 01-25-2005).]

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Joy:
I also believe that he [Beethoven] only conducted using his hands never a baton.

As I understand, batons were used by conductors at a much later date!

[spaceray]

Originally posted by srivele:
Thanks. I don't know how that synopsis got started, but I have been trying to correct it. However, once it gets into the mainstream, it's very hard to undo. A more accurate synopsis would be: The story of a young Vienna Conservatory student, the fictional Anna Holtz (Diane Kruger), who becomes Beethoven's (Ed Harris) copyist in his late period, and who derives from the dying composer the courage to become an artist in her own right.

There is no passionate love story, no sexual obsession - if there were, it wouldn't have taken us two years to raise the money to make the film.

I think it quite refreshing to anticipate a movie about Beethoven where he is portrayed as a real man ,warts and all.

[Rutradelusasa]

Originally posted by sjrivele:

How many musicians and choir members performed at the 9th Symphony premiere?
How were the members of the choir dressed?

We will need a string quartet to perform in the film. Any suggestions on a good quartet we might actually be able to hire in Budapest?

Same for an orchestra in Budapest. Any suggestions? We have decided (as per your suggestions) to go with period instruments.

You could try to get a vieneese band such as Concentus Musicus Wien and their leader (Harnoncourt) to assist you on musical and performance matters.

As for what was asked about conducting:
It was said that as he grew increasingly deaf, Beethoven grew increasingly exaggerated as a conductor, he would almost crouch to a pianissimo, blast to a fortissimo and he often missed the beat. In the 9th premiere he just marked the beat at the beggining of each section to Hr. Umlauf. I'm quite sure he didn't use a baton since Weber was the one who came up with the idea of that (a great conductor he was) and I guess it wasn't until 1824 that that happened.

Don't forget, it's the mezzo soloist who turns Beethoven to see the standing ovation .

I guess the Concentus Musicus Wien is the best band in the whereabouts, Vienna is not that far . Its leader is an excellent musician.


------------------
"Wer ein holdes weib errungen..."

[MusicallyInclined]

One question for Mr. Rivele: To what extent will the film focus on the Ninth symphony? I've heard you say that the film will be about Beethoven's last year, but didn't that symphony premier in 1824, at least three years before his death?

[srivele]

Originally posted by MusicallyInclined:
One question for Mr. Rivele: To what extent will the film focus on the Ninth symphony? I've heard you say that the film will be about Beethoven's last year, but didn't that symphony premier in 1824, at least three years before his death?

Actually the film starts with the 9th, then moves on to the last period. The bulk of it actually covers the last year and a half (we compress time somewhat), and focuses on the composing of the last string quartets. My hope is to bring this music - which I consider the highest achievement of our civilization - to the general audience, which does not know it at all, I think.

[srivele]

Originally posted by Rutradelusasa:
You could try to get a vieneese band such as Concentus Musicus Wien and their leader (Harnoncourt) to assist you on musical and performance matters.

As for what was asked about conducting:
It was said that as he grew increasingly deaf, Beethoven grew increasingly exaggerated as a conductor, he would almost crouch to a pianissimo, blast to a fortissimo and he often missed the beat. In the 9th premiere he just marked the beat at the beggining of each section to Hr. Umlauf. I'm quite sure he didn't use a baton since Weber was the one who came up with the idea of that (a great conductor he was) and I guess it wasn't until 1824 that that happened.

Don't forget, it's the mezzo soloist who turns Beethoven to see the standing ovation .

I guess the Concentus Musicus Wien is the best band in the whereabouts, Vienna is not that far . Its leader is an excellent musician.

Yes, that's what I've read about his conducting, too, so that's how we have depicted it in the script. We were invited to attend Ed's conducting session with his coach tomorrow, but there is just too much work that has to be done on the script, so we'll probably miss it. We're going to pre-record the passages from the 9th that Ed and Diane have to learn to conduct tomorrow evening.
On a larger note - the director has asked us to put together a kind of wish-list for the score of the film, that is, the background music we'd like to use to accompany the visuals, and which will form the bulk of the sound track. (Sony Classical has expressed an interest in producing the album.) So I'm throwing it open to the members:
What musical selections would you like to hear on the soundtrack album of the film?

Thanks, SR

[srivele]

Don't forget, it's the mezzo soloist who turns Beethoven to see the standing ovation .

I guess the Concentus Musicus Wien is the best band in the whereabouts, Vienna is not that far . Its leader is an excellent musician.

Alas, we've taken some dramatic license here: it is our fictional heroine who turns him around.

I like the Concentus Musicus very much, but moving them to Budapest, or taking the sound people to Vienna, is probably beyond our budget. We'll most likely use pre-recorded music and synch it to the performances on film. Since Sony Classical is interested in producing the sound track album for the film, we'll probably have to use items from their Beethoven catalogue. But that's okay since they have some truly wonderful artists and orchestras.

[/B]

[Chris]

Originally posted by srivele:
What musical selections would you like to hear on the soundtrack album of the film?

Are you looking for well known pieces, obscure pieces, or doesn't it matter how well they are known?

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 01-26-2005).]

[Rutradelusasa]

Originally posted by srivele:
What musical selections would you like to hear on the soundtrack album of the film?

Thanks, SR

I would like lots of music from other contemporaries (Hummel, Schubert, (F. and M.) Haydns, Albrechtsberger and others, even Mozart) being played from houses, as background. Usually these movies end up showing the composer-in-question's music only. He was not the only one to write at the time.
Concerning Beethoven, I would be glad to hear a lot of wind music (the trio for 2 oboes and english horn, the septet in E, etc.) and lots of arrangements (concertos for piano with the orchestra being another piano, symphonies on the piano (the second has already been recorded like that), the Grosse Fugue as in Op.134). The arrangements were at the time as records are today, people listened to music that way.

Originally posted by srivele:
We're going to pre-record the passages from the 9th that Ed and Diane have to learn to conduct tomorrow evening.
Thanks, SR

You are aware that it was not Beethoven conducting, right?


------------------
"Wer ein holdes weib errungen..."

[This message has been edited by Rutradelusasa (edited 01-26-2005).]

[Michael303]

t