Copying Beethoven - Ed Harris

[Chris]

<font color="Red">Posted by Chris on 01-06-2005 02:35 PM</font>

Originally posted by srivele:
Just wanted to let you know that I have grouped all your links and suggestions together into a single file that I will forward to the director and the art director. Rehearsals begin January 15; filming begins in Budapest April 15. I'll keep you posted. This site has become an important part of the project, and I cannot tell you how much I appreciate all the ideas and references.

Cheers, SR

And we appreciate your desire for authenticity. I'm sure it is quite a thrill for all of us to know our little corner of the web has made a contribution to such a major production.



[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 01-23-2005).]

[Chris]

<font color="Red">Posted by Joy on 01-06-2005 03:10 PM</font>

Originally posted by srivele:
Just wanted to let you know that I have grouped all your links and suggestions together into a single file that I will forward to the director and the art director. Rehearsals begin January 15; filming begins in Budapest April 15. I'll keep you posted. This site has become an important part of the project, and I cannot tell you how much I appreciate all the ideas and references.

Cheers, SR

A thrill indeed! Thanks so much for always keeping us posted on your progress. Much good luck on the beginning of filming and we all look forward to hearing about the continuing progress of this fascinating film!



[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 01-23-2005).]

[Chris]

<font color="Red">Posted by srivele on 01-08-2005 05:05 AM</font>

Originally posted by Chris:
A thrill indeed! Thanks so much for always keeping us posted on your progress. Much good luck on the beginning of filming and we all look forward to hearing about the continuing progress of this fascinating film!

We met with the people who are financing the film today and discussed cast, crew, schedule and budget. All of the cast except Ed and Diane will be British (by subsidy requirement), the key crew members also, though the bulk of the crew will be Hungarian. I passed along to the financiers the suggestions from the site members, and will forward the links you have sent me to the production designer as soon as she comes on board. It's getting real now, and very exciting. One of the producers asked me, "Would you be interested in Peter O'Toole playing Schlemmer?" To which I could only reply, "I'd be interested in him playing anything." Rehearsals start the 17th, with shooting scheduled to begin in Budapest on April 4. A question came up at the meeting: How many people attended the premiere of the 9th Symphony at the Kartnertor? Anyone know? And how were the theater and the stage lighted? Keep you posted. Thanks as always.

[Chris]

<font color="Red">Posted by urtextmeister on 01-08-2005 01:42 PM</font>

I have no answers but more questions about the ninth premiere.
I have heard that the performance was not well prepared and the musicians struggled with it. Furthermore, someone had to tug on Beethoven's sleeve to indicate the performance was over. I guess this indicate the orchestra stopped following Beethoven at some point. If that is true, with a piece of this complexity, it must have been a shambles. And yet, the applause was tumultous??
Also, it seems to me that I have heard of the ninth done with boy sopranos. This seems wrong to me. Certainly, by this time, the ladies would be in the chorus?
Any elucidation on either of these points?

[Chris]

<font color="Red">Posted by Joy on 01-08-2005 03:13 PM</font>

Originally posted by srivele:
We met with the people who are financing the film today and discussed cast, crew, schedule and budget. All of the cast except Ed and Diane will be British (by subsidy requirement), the key crew members also, though the bulk of the crew will be Hungarian. I passed along to the financiers the suggestions from the site members, and will forward the links you have sent me to the production designer as soon as she comes on board. It's getting real now, and very exciting. One of the producers asked me, "Would you be interested in Peter O'Toole playing Schlemmer?" To which I could only reply, "I'd be interested in him playing anything." Rehearsals start the 17th, with shooting scheduled to begin in Budapest on April 4. A question came up at the meeting: How many people attended the premiere of the 9th Symphony at the Kartnertor? Anyone know? And how were the theater and the stage lighted? Keep you posted. Thanks as always.

I have to agree with you about Peter O' Toole, an excellent actor and one of my favourites. Hope you can get him aboard! As for the 9th Symphony, here are some excepts from one of my books: "May 7th, 1824, the first performance of Beethoven's Symphony No. 9 in Vienna's Kaerntnerthor Theater, with Michael Umlauf conducting. Beethoven, who had been deaf for many years, did not realize the audience was applauding at the end of the performance alto singer Karoline Unger turned him around to see it. The idea of composing music to the Ode already existed as far back as 1793 and then again appeared in a sketchbook of 1798".
"It was a symphony of firsts: the first to exceed an hour, and the first to include singers as well as musicians. Recently, the manuscript that Beethoven used the night of that premiere fetched three and a half million dollars at an auction. Fans of the symphony the world over consider it priceless. The universal appeal of "Ode to Joy."
A quote from Beethoven in a letter to the Russian Ambassador in Vienna, "I am just publishing the greatest symphony I have yet written."
I believe he was several measures behind in the music while conducting and that's why the soprano turned him around at the end of the performance. He hadn't realized it ended. The orchestra was instructed to watch another conductor, Michael Umlauf.
The audience so loved the second movement (especially the first few notes) that it had to be repeated.
People stood up at the end and Beethoven received several encores. It was a huge success but not financially.
Sorry, don't know about the lights on stage. Maybe someone else can help with that.

[Chris]

<font color="Red">Posted by Peter on 01-08-2005 03:45 PM</font>

Originally posted by srivele:
We met with the people who are financing the film today and discussed cast, crew, schedule and budget. All of the cast except Ed and Diane will be British (by subsidy requirement), the key crew members also, though the bulk of the crew will be Hungarian. I passed along to the financiers the suggestions from the site members, and will forward the links you have sent me to the production designer as soon as she comes on board. It's getting real now, and very exciting. One of the producers asked me, "Would you be interested in Peter O'Toole playing Schlemmer?" To which I could only reply, "I'd be interested in him playing anything." Rehearsals start the 17th, with shooting scheduled to begin in Budapest on April 4. A question came up at the meeting: How many people attended the premiere of the 9th Symphony at the Kartnertor? Anyone know? And how were the theater and the stage lighted? Keep you posted. Thanks as always.

Regarding the lighting, gas lighting was introduced in 1817, in London's Drury Lane Theatre. In Vienna, a chemist was the first to introduce gas lighting in his shop in 1816, though I don't think the streets were lit this way until the 1840s - it is possible the karntnerthor was lit by gas in 1824, but I am not certain. The concert itself was fairly well attended, but the house was not full. Apparently 3 succesive bursts of applause were the norm for the Imperial family, but Beethoven received 5 after which the commissary of police called for silence. Beethoven was dressed in a green coat and probably a 3 cornered cocked hat - these details emerge from the conversation books. Apparently after the performance even members of the orchestra such as Mayseder and Bohm were overcome with emotion and were weeping!

[Chris]

<font color="Red">Posted by Hermit Thrush on 01-08-2005 05:01 PM</font>

Originally posted by Peter:
...Beethoven was dressed in a green coat and probably a 3 cornered cocked hat - these details emerge from the conversation books.

I have read that formal black was the proper attire (by the 1820's) for the conductor-----but Beethoven's black coat which he had at the taylor's was not ready in time for that first performance, so he had to wear an old dark green one instead. Apparently this caused him some anxiety, because Schindler had told him, in a conversationbook, not to worry, that nobody would notice. Unless Shindller just said this to calm him---this could indicate the lighting was not terribly bright.

I never heard any mention of a 3-cornered hat---which by this time would have been terribly out of date!

[Chris]

<font color="Red">Posted by Peter on 01-08-2005 10:19 PM</font>

Originally posted by Chris:
I have read that formal black was the proper attire (by the 1820's) for the conductor-----but Beethoven's black coat which he had at the taylor's was not ready in time for that first performance, so he had to wear an old dark green one instead. Apparently this caused him some anxiety, because Schindler had told him, in a conversationbook, not to worry, that nobody would notice. Unless Shindller just said this to calm him---this could indicate the lighting was not terribly bright.

I never heard any mention of a 3-cornered hat---which by this time would have been terribly out of date!

Yes I agree about the hat, this comes from Grove. It wasn't Beethoven of course who was the conductor but Michael Umlauf - this was made clear in the announcements of the 2 concerts "Herr Schuppanzigh will lead the orchestra, and Herr Kappelmeister Umlauf will conduct the whole performance. Herr Beethoven will take part in the direction." Umlauf was so concerned that the orchestra were not up to the task that as he stepped onto the stage he made the sign of the cross over the players!

[Chris]

<font color="Red">Posted by Amalie on 01-08-2005 10:47 PM</font>

Peter,

What was the Karntnertor Theatre seating capacity, was it about 900 ?
It would be interesting to know what the social profile was of the people attending Beethoven's 9th. I presume there was the aristocracy as ever, but of course I guess there was a wider constituency of what one might think is a mass market that Beethoven's music was creating.
I understand that Schubert attended the concert.
I would love to have been there that glorious evening!

[Chris]

<font color="Red">Posted by Peter on 01-09-2005 08:26 AM</font>

Originally posted by Amalie:
Peter,

What was the Karntnertor Theatre seating capacity, was it about 900 ?
It would be interesting to know what the social profile was of the people attending Beethoven's 9th. I presume there was the aristocracy as ever, but of course I guess there was a wider constituency of what one might think is a mass market that Beethoven's music was creating.
I understand that Schubert attended the concert.
I would love to have been there that glorious evening!

Unfortunately there seems to be little available information on the Karntnertor - maybe the Austrian Theatre museum will be able to help on this. info@theatermuseum.at

[Chris]

<font color="Red">Posted by Joy on 01-11-2005 03:22 PM</font>

Originally posted by Hermit Thrush:
[B]but Beethoven's black coat which he had at the taylor's was not ready in time for that first performance, so he had to wear an old dark green one instead. Apparently this caused him some anxiety, because Schindler had told him, in a conversationbook, not to worry, that nobody would notice. Unless Shindller just said this to calm him---this could indicate the lighting was not terribly bright.
[B]

I have read too that Beethoven's coat was not ready in time for the concert from the taylor's and he was quite anxious about this as you can imagine. I also have read where he only owned two coats and had to wear his other one. He was anxious about a few things the night before the concert and was pacing up and down quite a bit. This was the first time he had been on stage for years, I think,
and it was his big comeback. He knew what was at stake, so I'm sure he was anxious about that.

[Chris]

<font color="Red">OK, that's the end of the lost messages.</font>

[Joy]

I'm wondering if Mr. Rivele would kindly let us know how rehersals are going as I think they have started.

------------------
'Truth and beauty joined'

[sjrivele]

Originally posted by Joy:
I'm wondering if Mr. Rivele would kindly let us know how rehersals are going as I think they have started.

I have been trying to post messages for some time now without success. I take it there have been problems with the site. I hope this one works.

(Well, I just had to re-register because the site wouldn't accept my ID and password. I'll try this again...)

Rehearsals have started, the actors are giving us very good script notes based on their characters, and we are making the changes now. Everyone is grateful for the input from the site. I have arranged to have the photos and links you have sent forwarded to the production designer, who will be coming on board shortly.

One or two questions:

Was the Karntnertor Theater lighted by gas in 1824?

How was the Grosse Fugue received on its premiere?

How many musicians and choir members performed at the 9th Symphony premiere?
How were the members of the choir dressed?

Has anyone learned where Schlemmer's office/rooms were located and what they looked like?

Was Beethoven's Broadwood piano "cut off at the knees" so that he could feel the vibrations, or is this just a myth?

We will need a string quartet to perform in the film. Any suggestions on a good quartet we might actually be able to hire in Budapest?

Same for an orchestra in Budapest. Any suggestions? We have decided (as per your suggestions) to go with period instruments.

Ed and Diane are currently taking piano and conducting lessons. Any thoughts on Beethoven's conducting style?

With thanks as ever for the wonderful input and support, SR

[KyleC]

looked up this movie and got this:

Synopsis: Centers on the love and obsession that Ludwig van Beethoven developed for his assistant while he was working on his 'Symphony No. 9'.

im a little concerned about this. is this falling in love historical facts or just a way of bringing in a love story? it still seems good but im curious, could you give us an in depth synopsis. thanks. oh and good luck with everything! this movie is going to be great i know it!

[This message has been edited by KyleC (edited 01-25-2005).]