Authentic page mp3s - "Harp" quartet Op.74

[Peter]

Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

A reasonable performance, could do with a little more emphasis in the phrasing here and there but otherwise ok.

I've got another period insrtument version by the Eroica Quartet (also on HM) but they play the Allegro section at a ponderous tempo and i rarely listen to it, but you'll be hearing from their version of Op.95 in due course.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Rod:
A reasonable performance, could do with a little more emphasis in the phrasing here and there but otherwise ok.

I've got another period insrtument version by the Eroica Quartet (also on HM) but they play the Allegro section at a ponderous tempo and i rarely listen to it, but you'll be hearing from their version of Op.95 in due course.

This is beautiful. No problems here, for me at any rate..

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
This is beautiful. No problems here, for me at any rate..

I've noticed the strings sound a little uncertain in this mp3 compared to the CD because of the low resolution, but that's the price you pay for the file not being 10mb!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Quite a nice recording of this wonderful quartet - the use of pizzicato, brilliant first violin passage work and thrilling preparation of the recapitulation must have sounded quite revolutionary in 1809.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Quite a nice recording of this wonderful quartet - the use of pizzicato, brilliant first violin passage work and thrilling preparation of the recapitulation must have sounded quite revolutionary in 1809.

Have you a preferred recording Peter? I've had a few conventional efforts in my hands over the years. There is still room for improvement in 'authentic' Beethoven quartet playing which as i have said before is still in its infancy, especially with the late quartets of which I have only op135 by the Eroica Quartet and it's not particularly good - The Eroica Quartet won huge applause with their authentic CD of Mendelssohn but their Beethoven is another kettle of fish (but then Mendelssohn is not Beethoven!).

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 04-20-2005).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Have you a preferred recording Peter? I've had a few conventional efforts in my hands over the years. There is still room for improvement in 'authentic' Beethoven quartet playing which as i have said before is still in its infancy, especially with the late quartets of which I have only op135 by the Eroica Quartet and it's not particularly good - The Eroica Quartet won huge applause with their authentic CD of Mendelssohn but their Beethoven is another kettle of fish (but then Mendelssohn is not Beethoven!).

I don't have a favourite - there are several excellent versions such as the Vegh and Talich, but the Italiano quartet are one of the best 'conventional' versions in my view. Have you tried the Turner Quartet? They are an HIP quartet and I have a cd of them doing Op59/3 and Op.74 which is very interesting.

I've just realised your version is the Turner! Well you're right, the cd does sound better!


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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 04-20-2005).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:

I've just realised your version is the Turner! Well you're right, the cd does sound better!

So i hope Chris will now believe me when I say the quality of the strings (which he has been critical of) is better than it seems from these mp3s!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
So i hope Chris will now believe me when I say the quality of the strings (which he has been critical of) is better than it seems from these mp3s!

I have many hours of period strings on CD, and I quite prefer modern strings, except in ensemble in certain circumstances (but never Beethoven). And of course I like Baroque music on period instruments always. If you saw my favored recordings, you would see all period instruments up to Mozart. Mozart would be a mix of period and modern. Everything after, including Beethoven, would be modern instruments.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
I have many hours of period strings on CD, and I quite prefer modern strings, except in ensemble in certain circumstances (but never Beethoven). And of course I like Baroque music on period instruments always. If you saw my favored recordings, you would see all period instruments up to Mozart. Mozart would be a mix of period and modern. Everything after, including Beethoven, would be modern instruments.

If you had said you simply preferred modern instruments per se I would disagree but would understand. However this position of having Mozart as your borderline i find very bizarre considering Beethoven's music is transformed on period instruments to a far greater degree than the earlier composer from my experience (given Beethoven's propensity to push instruments to their extremes). But c'est la vie! Of course the best baroque music on period instruments you can find at my Handel site!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin




[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 04-21-2005).]

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
However this position of having Mozart as you borderline i find very bizzare considering Beethoven's music is transformed on period instruments to a far greater degree than the earlier composer...

I would agree with that, but I just don't find the transformation good in Beethoven's case, I suppose.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
I would agree with that, but I just don't find the transformation good in Beethoven's case, I suppose.

Fair enough. Considering the instruments for which Beethoven DOES sound good to you were developed over a considerable period after his death, do you believe...

A. Beethoven was hugely ahead of his time and was not really composing for contemporary instruments even in the 1820s?

or

B. The newer instruments made his in some way inadequate music better (considering that for you the earlier composers were by default more successful in dealing with the instruments of the day)?



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Fair enough. Considering the instruments for which Beethoven DOES sound good to you were developed over a considerable period after his death, do you believe...

A. Beethoven was hugely ahead of his time and was not really composing for contemporary instruments even in the 1820s?

or

B. The newer instruments made his in some way inadequate music better (considering that for you the earlier composers were by default more successful in dealing with the instruments of the day)?

Hmm I think we've been down this road before! Actually I don't see anything odd in Chris's position re. Mozart and earlier music. You rightly make the point that Beethoven was making demands on instruments that the earlier composers didn't, so surely more of a case could be made for modern instruments with Beethoven than Mozart?

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Hmm I think we've been down this road before! Actually I don't see anything odd in Chris's position re. Mozart and earlier music. You rightly make the point that Beethoven was making demands on instruments that the earlier composers didn't, so surely more of a case could be made for modern instruments with Beethoven than Mozart?

I've been down this road but I want to understand other peoples logic - and the options I have presented Chris seem an accurate reflection of either side of the coin from what he has told me so far.

When I said Beethoven made demands the others didn't I did not mean that the instruments weren't capable of meeting those demands but rather he was more in tune with their potential (that sometimes, paradoxically, arises from their simplicity or fragility). For me it is the concept of being 'on the edge' that is fundamental with Beethoven's compositional style and one gets that impression for more with period instruments than todays overblown 'improvements'.

Put simply the music sounds far fresher and paradoxically (again!) more 'modern' on the old instruments compared to the new instruments, with whom all too often one becomes aware that one is listening to 'old man's music' as someone I know once described (accurately) a performance of Beethoven I have on CD by Brendel (Steinway).

It sounds like something from the past when played in the modern style because the increasing academisation of music teaching has been made at the expense of artistic understanding.

There are too many 'old men' clogging up the world of classical music to my mind.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin



[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 04-21-2005).]

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
Fair enough. Considering the instruments for which Beethoven DOES sound good to you were developed over a considerable period after his death, do you believe...

A. Beethoven was hugely ahead of his time and was not really composing for contemporary instruments even in the 1820s?

or

B. The newer instruments made his in some way inadequate music better (considering that for you the earlier composers were by default more successful in dealing with the instruments of the day)?

Niether. I believe he was composing for the instruments he had available, and did so quite successfully. Just because something came along in the future, of which he could not have been aware, that enhances his muic to my ear (which does not equate to objectively better), it does not mean in any way that he was less successful in composing for the instruments of his day than other composers. If it means anything, and I don't think it has to, it means that his music was able expand to work well on instruments that came later, while other composers' music was not.

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 04-21-2005).]