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    Brahms cleared !

    The Guardian.

    Brahms cleared of serial cat slaying.

    Author's research reveals calumny that for 100 years defamed German composer was the malicious gossip of 'notoriously bitchy' Wagner.

    Johannes Brahms, bewhiskered composer of four symphonies, has been cleared of one of the most serious charges ever levelled at a musical genius - the accusation that he was a cat slayer.

    For more than a century, cat lovers have accepted as true the allegation that Brahms slaughtered felines, transcribed the sounds of their dying moments and callously incorporated then into his works.

    But research proves that the foul calumny was almost certainly the work of Richard Wagner, a notoriously bitchy composer whose operas go on longer that one of the nine lives of an average mog.

    Writing in the May issue of the BBC Music Magazine, Calum MacDonald, who is the author of a study of Brahms, dismisses the charge on empirical grounds. "In my own limited but miserable experience, dying cats don't tend to make such noise," he says.

    In his review of the evidence, he notes that stories of Brahms killing cats surface mainly in books about cats rather that in books about music "which is suspicious in itself".

    He finds oe of the most recent accounts in Desmond Morris's Cat World, published in 1996, which claims that Brahms began cat bagging after the Czech composer Antonin Dvorak gave him a "Bohemian sparrow slaying bow".

    Brahms used to take aim from his apartment window in Vienna, alleges Morris, who then quotes Wagner: "After spearing the poor brutes, he reeled then in to his room after the manner of a trout-fisher. Then he eagerly listened to the expiring groans of his victims and carefully jotted down in his notebook their ante mortem remarks".

    Morris adds: "According to Wagner, who disliked Brahms, he worked these sounds into his chamber music".

    MacDonald dismisses every detail of this account as suspect and reports that Morris cannot now find the source for Wagner's comments. He also explains that Wagner never visited Brahms's flat, so at best could only have been retailing gossip. Dvorak and Brahms met in 1880, only three years before Wagner died, leaving a very limited time for Brahms to become expert with the Bohemian bow and for Wagner to get wind of the story, had it been true.

    MacDonald adds: "Dvorak would presumably have to have given Brahms the bow in person but their collected correspondence contains no letter saying, 'Please, Honoured Master, accept this amusing artefact from my native land'.

    He then asks: "Is there really such a thing as a 'Bohemian sparrow slaying bow?"

    Brahms's apartment is presumably is flat in the Karlgasse, which was several floors up, so he'd need a long line to haul up any speard moggies. Did sparrow slaying bows have lines attached?. It surely wouldn't be strong enough to haul in dying cats, especially if they were struggling".

    After consulting Styra Avins, editor of Johannes Brahms: Life and Letters, MacDonald learned that in 1893 - when Brahms was still alive - a music critic for the New York Times, James Huneker, had cited the story of the composer's hatred of cats as an example of how biography could be contaminated by deliberate fiction. Huneker named Wagner as the guilty man.

    "Brahms's supposed sadism is a malicious fabrication" MacDonald concludes. Which means the rest of us can listen to the clarinet quintet without fearing that some of its finest moments were inspired by a cat yowling its way to oblivion.

    In later life Brahms was know for his rudeness. Once, as he left a party in Vienna, he said: "If there is someone here whom I have not insulted, I apologize."






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    ~ Courage, so it be righteous, will gain all things ~
    ~ Courage, so it be righteous, will gain all things ~

    #2
    Originally posted by Amalie:
    The Guardian.

    Brahms cleared of serial cat slaying.
    But research proves that the foul calumny was almost certainly the work of Richard Wagner, a notoriously bitchy composer whose operas go on longer that one of the nine lives of an average mog.

    "Brahms's supposed sadism is a malicious fabrication" MacDonald concludes. Which means the rest of us can listen to the clarinet quintet without fearing that some of its finest moments were inspired by a cat yowling its way to oblivion.

    In later life Brahms was know for his rudeness. Once, as he left a party in Vienna, he said: "If there is someone here whom I have not insulted, I apologize."




    Amalie, Nice piece of reading. It rekindled my dislike like for Wagner as a man and more so as a composer. Maybe Wagner was secretly an animal control offical. At any rate another cheer for our beloved Brahms

    [This message has been edited by King Stephen (edited 02-21-2005).]

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by King Stephen:
      Amalie, Nice piece of reading. It rekindled my dislike like for Wagner as a man and more so as a composer. Maybe Wagner was secretly an animal control offical. At any rate another cheer for our beloved Brahms

      [This message has been edited by King Stephen (edited 02-21-2005).]
      Well I've read several Brahms biographies and I've never heard anything about Brahms and cats! Now Brahms and Liszt is another matter..!!


      ------------------
      'Man know thyself'
      'Man know thyself'

      Comment


        #4

        I believe that in 1853 Brahms and Liszt had a falling out at Weimar where Liszt was giving a performance of his own B minor Sonata and Brahms fell asleep. It was a difinitive turning point at their first and last meeting.
        These are only sketchy details, I often wonder whether it was a clash between musical taste and style. Of course there was the famous anti-modernist letter of Brahms and Joachim aimed at Liszt and Wagner which pretty much split German music along idealogical lines for a generation or more. It seems to me that calling Brahms anti-German was just silly, and one of those bad instances of music being used as vehicle for politics.


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        ~ Courage, so it be righteous, will gain all things ~

        [This message has been edited by Amalie (edited 02-22-2005).]
        ~ Courage, so it be righteous, will gain all things ~

        Comment


          #5
          The whole thing appears to me as a farcical description of the music of Brahms from a staunch Wagnerite. Regardless I got some chuckles out of it. (I doubt either composer had much to do with the article.)

          Comment


            #6
            I must protest this blatant calumny on the spotless reputation of the gentle Wagner, who once said, after hearing a Brahms symphony, "You see what can still be done with the old forms, in the hands of someone who knows what he is doing." (While this may be interpreted as damning with faint praise, onlt those intent on slandering the blameless Wagner would interpret it so. Alas, that such a gentle and meek soul should have to suffer the slings and arrows of the envious and prejudiced, over a hundred years after his death, no less.)

            Chaszz

            http://charles.zigmund.com



            [This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 02-23-2005).]
            See my paintings and sculptures at Saatchiart.com. In the search box, choose Artist and enter Charles Zigmund.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Chaszz:
              I must protest this blatant calumny on the spotless reputation of the gentle Wagner, who once said, after hearing a Brahms symphony, "You see what can still be done with the old forms, in the hands of someone who knows what he is doing." (While this may be interpreted as damning with faint praise, onlt those intent on slandering the blameless Wagner would interpret it so. Alas, that such a gentle and meek soul should have to suffer the slings and arrows of the envious and prejudiced, over a hundred years after his death, no less.)

              Chaszz

              http://charles.zigmund.com

              [This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 02-23-2005).]
              Your Wagner quote actually refers to Brahms's variations and fugue on a theme by Handel which had impressed Wagner. However another reference to Brahms was less flattering "compose, compose even when you have no ideas! I know famous composers who you can meet at concert masquerades, today in a ballad singer's disguise.. tomorrow in Handel's Hallelujah wig and then again as a genuine symphonist decked out as number 10" (a reference to Brahms's 1st symphony).

              ------------------
              'Man know thyself'
              'Man know thyself'

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Peter:
                Your Wagner quote actually refers to Brahms's variations and fugue on a theme by Handel which had impressed Wagner. However another reference to Brahms was less flattering "compose, compose even when you have no ideas! I know famous composers who you can meet at concert masquerades, today in a ballad singer's disguise.. tomorrow in Handel's Hallelujah wig and then again as a genuine symphonist decked out as number 10" (a reference to Brahms's 1st symphony).

                You see, this is another example of the bad press which Wagner inevitably receives. It is well known among Wagner fans that this quote originally ran: "Grind, grind, you execrable oaf of no talent! You yourself should wear your monkey's costume! And receive his [deleted] ten times over!" It was directed at an organ grinder whom Wagner encountered in the Luxemburg Gardens whose monkey had done the unspeakable upon Wagner's shoe. After many deliberate misqoutes, it assumed its present form.

                Myriad are the undeserved calumnies on the gentle Wagner's name. Trust me.

                See my paintings and sculptures at Saatchiart.com. In the search box, choose Artist and enter Charles Zigmund.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Chaszz:
                  You see, this is another example of the bad press which Wagner inevitably receives. It is well known among Wagner fans that this quote originally ran: "Grind, grind, you execrable oaf of no talent! You yourself should wear your monkey's costume! And receive his [deleted] ten times over!" It was directed at an organ grinder whom Wagner encountered in the Luxemburg Gardens whose monkey had done the unspeakable upon Wagner's shoe. After many deliberate misqoutes, it assumed its present form.

                  Myriad are the undeserved calumnies on the gentle Wagner's name. Trust me.

                  Maybe you are right on this one Chaszz, but 'gentle' Wagner is going a bit far. I daresay many misquotes have been attributed to Wagner, he was a strong personality and a genius - a combination which inevitably attracts envy and hostility. However in a previous thread, plenty of evidence was provided as to the appallingly vicious views he held on certain matters as well as his disgraceful behaviour towards people such as Count Wesendonck. A genius yes, but not a gentle one!

                  ------------------
                  'Man know thyself'
                  'Man know thyself'

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Peter:
                    Maybe you are right on this one Chaszz, but 'gentle' Wagner is going a bit far. I daresay many misquotes have been attributed to Wagner, he was a strong personality and a genius - a combination which inevitably attracts envy and hostility. However in a previous thread, plenty of evidence was provided as to the appallingly vicious views he held on certain matters as well as his disgraceful behaviour towards people such as Count Wesendonck. A genius yes, but not a gentle one!

                    Peter, I have been making each post zanier than the prior one trying to clue you in to the fact that I am just kidding here, with tongue in cheek! I was only trying to make a joke on the fact that I like Wagner enough to try to deny his malevolence. I guess I should have put up a smiley, but I have never learned to use those on this forum. So I will do this instead :-}

                    The organ grinder story is a pure hoax on my part. Quite obviously Wagner is one of the most despicable characters in the pantheon as far as personal character goes, with only the poet Villon, a professional criminal, and the painter Caravaggio, an impulsive murderer, for company, to my knowledge.

                    Chaszz



                    [This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 02-24-2005).]
                    See my paintings and sculptures at Saatchiart.com. In the search box, choose Artist and enter Charles Zigmund.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      As despicable as was his character he still composed some very wonderful things--even inspiring.

                      I did enjoy that first post; it reminded me of a book by Nicholas Slonimsky (not sure of the spelling of the last name) I read a while back that had some interesting anecdotes regarding musicians and composers. Some of those that were of an insulting nature were downright funny.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Chaszz:
                        Peter, I have been making each post zanier than the prior one trying to clue you in to the fact that I am just kidding here, with tongue in cheek! I was only trying to make a joke on the fact that I like Wagner enough to try to deny his malevolence. I guess I should have put up a smiley, but I have never learned to use those on this forum. So I will do this instead :-}

                        The organ grinder story is a pure hoax on my part. Quite obviously Wagner is one of the most despicable characters in the pantheon as far as personal character goes, with only the poet Villon, a professional criminal, and the painter Caravaggio, an impulsive murderer, for company, to my knowledge.

                        Chaszz

                        [This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 02-24-2005).]
                        Well without those smilies it's hard to tell when someone is being serious!

                        I do share your view though that we shouldn't judge art by its creator's personal flaws!

                        ------------------
                        'Man know thyself'
                        'Man know thyself'

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Brahms wouldn't even step on ants when he took those walks in the wildwoods! If someone told me that Wagner was the catkiller, perhaps I'd take an interest...

                          Vivat vivat Brahmus! Vivat vivat Brahmus!

                          zum teufel mit rikard vagner, dekadenter

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Uniqor:
                            Brahms wouldn't even step on ants when he took those walks in the wildwoods! If someone told me that Wagner was the catkiller, perhaps I'd take an interest...

                            Vivat vivat Brahmus! Vivat vivat Brahmus!

                            zum teufel mit rikard vagner, dekadenter
                            I totaly agree with you!! R. Wagner was a crazy anti-semitic and a good gossiper!! I hate him, but i love J. Brahms!!

                            (What's your nationality? What's the meaning of "Vivat vivat Brahmus! Vivat vivat Brahmus!
                            zum teufel mit rikard vagner, dekadenter", in English? (can be in French or Portuguese too)

                            I hate R. Wagner!!!



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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Carol Oliveira_27:
                              I totaly agree with you!! R. Wagner was a crazy anti-semitic and a good gossiper!! I hate him, but i love J. Brahms!!

                              (What's your nationality? What's the meaning of "Vivat vivat Brahmus! Vivat vivat Brahmus!
                              zum teufel mit rikard vagner, dekadenter", in English? (can be in French or Portuguese too)

                              I hate R. Wagner!!!

                              As far as my german goes it would be spelled like, long live brahms, to hell(literally devil) with Richard wagner, the decadent.

                              Is this translation good enough uniqor??

                              btw,although I must confess I haven´t heard a lot from wagner I still can´t write him of completely.I´ve also read somewhere (can´t remember where though) that chopin could be quite the antisemitic and bruckner appeared to fall for juveniles...still their music survived, and this should be cherished..

                              Regards,
                              Ruud


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