Why so late?!

[Johan]

Originally posted by Michael:
Tchaikovsky made a hash of the "1812 Overture", I think, by including the "Marseillaise" to represent the French. It's such a bloody good tune that each time it appears it ovewhelms all the Russian themes. Beethoven didn't fall into this trap - he gave the British the stirring "Rule Brittania" and what did he give the French? "Marlbrouk" (otherwise known as "For he's a Jolly Good Fellow".)
So,at the start of "Wellington's Victory" while the British come on stage in a proper military fashion, the French seem to mince on to this frivolous tune. Beethoven does give them a bit of dignity towards the end when "Marlbrouk" returns in the minor key, to signify the French defeat.
I think "Wellington's Victory" is no masterpiece but it's great fun and a great piece to show off on your stereo. During the upcoming Beethoven Marathon on Radio 3 next June, the BBC have promised a live performance of this work in an unusual setting. (Waterloo Station, maybe?)
Michael

It just happens that Wellington's victory is going to be performed here in Turku outdoors in August with cannons and muskets!
I hope it is going to be a spectacle never to be forgotten.

[Uniqor]

I just listened to a recording of the Victory. IT strongly reminds me of the nature of music - of what exactly is music for. Maybe it's because of this very simplistic clarity of the artistic nature of this piece, Beethoven didn't want to make it considered as serious as a symphony... If you know what I mean that is.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Beethoven's use of guns is much more entertaining than Tchaikovsky's! With Beethoven you get a whole battle on the stage! I suggest Beethoven's use of the national themes is also more interesting. I have a good recording of the 'Battle' by Nevile Marriner and the ASMF that uses additional effects of horses and the cries of the soldiers charging that really add to the overall impression, and this would be 10 times more electric if he'd used period drums and other intruments. Remember this music was not an overture like the 1812, but a piece of live theatre - the complications of which, according to Schindler, made conducting Fidelio look easy by comparison! Even if Schindler was being a little over the top, it does indicate there was more to the production of Wellington's Victory than is generally appreciated today.

After Beethoven I suggest the next best use of cannons in music is by AC/DC in their song 'For Those About To Rock We Salute You'. I am partially deaf in my left ear from the effects of hearing this live back in 1986!

I have to say this piece has never had much appeal to me - just how much of it is Beethoven and not Maelzel anyway? I doubt that anyone here would give it the time of day if it wasn't associated with Beethoven -totally heretical as it may be on this site, I think Tchaikovsky did a much better job with the 1812 which is far more rousing whatever its faults - I await your wrath!


------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I have to say this piece has never had much appeal to me - just how much of it is Beethoven and not Maelzel anyway? I doubt that anyone here would give it the time of day if it wasn't associated with Beethoven -totally heretical as it may be on this site, I think Tchaikovsky did a much better job with the 1812 which is far more rousing whatever its faults - I await your wrath!

As i have said how can you directly compare the overture with live theatre... that was originally composed for a musical machine!? Either way I'd much rather see Wellington's Victory than the 1812. It is thought Maelzel had some influence on the composition of the music, i assume because the musical possibilities of the Panharmonicon would not be fully known by Beethoven. But who would say the treatment of 'God Save The King' in the Victory Symphony was the work of Maelzel?



------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
As i have said how can you directly compare the overture with live theatre... that was originally composed for a musical machine!? Either way I'd much rather see Wellington's Victory than the 1812. It is thought Maelzel had some influence on the composition of the music, i assume because the musical possibilities of the Panharmonicon would not be fully known by Beethoven. But who would say the treatment of 'God Save The King' in the Victory Symphony was the work of Maelzel?

The battle itself is the part I dislike most - a cacophony that I suspect is the part Maelzel influenced most. I prefer Weber's use of God save the king in his overture 'Jubel', very rousing!

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Peter:
I have to say this piece has never had much appeal to me - just how much of it is Beethoven and not Maelzel anyway? I doubt that anyone here would give it the time of day if it wasn't associated with Beethoven -totally heretical as it may be on this site, I think Tchaikovsky did a much better job with the 1812 which is far more rousing whatever its faults - I await your wrath!

With regards to my own preferences you are right in that the association with Beethoven makes a difference to this work. However, it is not only in name, but in way in which this was composed. While I do not think it is necessarily superior to the 1812 I do prefer it more than the 1812 (probably because of the excessive popularity of the 1812 turns me off).

[Joy]

Originally posted by Peter:
I have to say this piece has never had much appeal to me - just how much of it is Beethoven and not Maelzel anyway? I doubt that anyone here would give it the time of day if it wasn't associated with Beethoven -totally heretical as it may be on this site, I think Tchaikovsky did a much better job with the 1812 which is far more rousing whatever its faults - I await your wrath!

You won't get my 'wrath' as I agree with what you say about Tchaikovsky and Beethoven. If I recall correctly Wellington's Victory was performed along side with his Symphony #7 at the time and Wellington's was the great Victory with the audience. I think it was because of the times, the victory over Napoleon. A song of the times like the 60's peace songs along side the Vietnam war. Who listens to those anymore? At the Hollywood Bowl years ago they performed Tchaikovsky's 1812 cannons and all and it was amazing. I think you have to see it in person to appreciate it just like some day I would like to see Welllington's Victory performed in all it's glory. Would be exciting I'm sure.

------------------
'Truth and beauty joined'

[Michael]

Originally posted by Peter:
The battle itself is the part I dislike most - a cacophony that I suspect is the part Maelzel influenced most. I prefer Weber's use of God save the king in his overture 'Jubel', very rousing!

That "cacophony" upset a radio presenter on our classical station a few years ago. He was playing "Wellington's Victory" during a programme called "Drivetime Classics" or whatever, and as soon as the battle started, he stopped the disc and apologised profusely. It was obvious he had never heard the piece before this as he described it as "very strange". Perhaps he was afraid it would cause a few car crashes.

Michael



[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 03-11-2005).]

[Johan]

There are two great works of the same subject, but in different forms, namely the cantata "Meeresstille und glückliche Fahrt" by Beethoven and an overture with the same title by Mendelssohn. I prefer Beethoven.

[Carol Oliveira_27]

Originally posted by Johan:


My favourite opera (yes...FIDELIO!) have been played here in Finland at the opera-festival in Savonlinna and I don't want to miss any performances of this work. The best performance I have seen (and heard) was the premiere in 1992 in Savonlinna.

____________________####_____________________

Hi Johan,

I'm Carolina, and i simply hate rock, funk, samba, and i ONLY LIKE CLASSIC MUSIC!!! In my school all my coleagues always say that i'm crazy only because of it!!!
I don't mind, i like being different, im totally excentric!!

Here in Rio de Janeiro in the Theatro Municipal ( in english Municipal Theatre), in December,2004, i watched the Beethoven's 7th Symphony with a ballet coreography. It was unnaforgetable !!!!!!!

Carolina (13 years old)
the Brazilian Young Flutist

[Johan]

Originally posted by Carol Oliveira_27:

Originally posted by Johan:


My favourite opera (yes...FIDELIO!) have been played here in Finland at the opera-festival in Savonlinna and I don't want to miss any performances of this work. The best performance I have seen (and heard) was the premiere in 1992 in Savonlinna.

____________________####_____________________

Hi Johan,

I'm Carolina, and i simply hate rock, funk, samba, and i ONLY LIKE CLASSIC MUSIC!!! In my school all my coleagues always say that i'm crazy only because of it!!!
I don't mind, i like being different, im totally excentric!!

Here in Rio de Janeiro in the Theatro Municipal ( in english Municipal Theatre), in December,2004, i watched the Beethoven's 7th Symphony with a ballet coreography. It was unnaforgetable !!!!!!!

Carolina (13 years old)
the Brazilian Young Flutist

Hello Carolina!
Great! I was also considered very odd in school as I only listened to classical music! But, as you, I didn't mind.
I like also ballet (was also in a ballet-school, I and 50 girls - even some of the girls there used to laugh at me - but I didn't mind). How incredible it must have been to see this great ballet choreography of the 7th symphony!!! You lucky!
Greeting from Finland