Why so late?!

[Johan]

Hello!
I am new here. My name is Johan and I am writing from Finland.
I already posted one message to the temporary site. To start with I will give you this message anew:
Hello!
My story to the music of Beethoven is not a straightforward one (or, perhaps?!). I started playing violin at an early age and I just remember saying at the beginning to my teacher that I could not stand the music of Beethoven. My teacher just replied that I certainly one day would find the music of Beethoven and not just find - also find him irresistible. How right he had!!!
I remember once (I was in my teens) deciding to listen all the symphonies of Beethoven through. And I can tell you my fascination grew by every symphony. At the end I was trembling with joy and excitement and could only regret my earlier neglect of Beethoven's music
Curiously enough I had never heard one single note of Missa Solemnis. At the time I was studying at the university I once decided to go the music-library in the town just to hear this work I had wondered about a long time. This library had the Klemperer.
There is no words!!! Really...no words! I wasn't anymore myself, I was like crazy. When I came home my roommate said to me: "WHAT has happened with you?"

By now I have heard almost everything Beethoven composed at least once and I have read really a great deal of the immense literature written about Beethoven and his music. This was helped by the fact that I have studied also in Germany and could read a lot of the literature written in german in the original language.

My favourite opera (yes...FIDELIO!) have been played here in Finland at the opera-festival in Savonlinna and I don't want to miss any performances of this work. The best performance I have seen (and heard) was the premiere in 1992 in Savonlinna.

[Sorrano]

I have to admit that it took me some time to listen to the Missa Solemnis. But in my case I was so awed by what I had read of the work that it was difficult to bring myself to listen to it; I felt that I simply could not understand it and was not prepared for such a tremendous impression. The same is true, as well, for me of the late quartets and the late piano sonatas. I never feel that I am ready for them.

[Joy]

I feel the same way about the late quartets and the Grosse Fugue Opus 133 not to mention his Hammerklavier Opus 106 (1817-1818).

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[urtextmeister]

I think many of us feel this way.

Oddly enough, though, I loved the ninth symphony from a very young age and listened to it constantly.

[spaceray]

I am a latecomer to most of Beethoven's music.Especially the chamber music.I'm working my way to the symphonies a bit slowly.My mother had Beethoven's 5th Piano Concerto on her top ten list so I know this piece well (and love it).But like most people my age ,(52) ,I heard my first Beethoven in Bugs Bunny cartoons.The 5th Symphony above all as I remember it.

[Johan]

Originally posted by spaceray:
I am a latecomer to most of Beethoven's music.Especially the chamber music.I'm working my way to the symphonies a bit slowly.My mother had Beethoven's 5th Piano Concerto on her top ten list so I know this piece well (and love it).But like most people my age ,(52) ,I heard my first Beethoven in Bugs Bunny cartoons.The 5th Symphony above all as I remember it.

Thank you all for your comments and especially thank you Spaceray for your earlier comment on the site that was temporary.

I just loved his late quartets (the most sublime music ever composed) or late piano sonatas from the beginning - indeed so much so that I thought much of his earlier works as less interesting.
Today I love also many of his earlier works. One of my favourites of the quartets is op. 18,2.

[Uniqor]

Beethoven's best isn't in his late work. His out-bursting romanticism, in contrast with the root of classism, made those work unbalanced, in the higher and universal level of sense. And it's from that level, listeners normally draw their conclusions.
Doesn't matter which professor say how beautiful the Hammerklavier is, people don't listen to it as often, as excitingly as Fur Elise. Those work represented his decline as a composer in that time; they are still not among the most liked this day. Will they ever? Doubt it, unless the basic aesthetic value change.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Uniqor:
Beethoven's best isn't in his late work. His out-bursting romanticism, in contrast with the root of classism, made those work unbalanced, in the higher and universal level of sense. And it's from that level, listeners normally draw their conclusions.
Doesn't matter which professor say how beautiful the Hammerklavier is, people don't listen to it as often, as excitingly as Fur Elise. Those work represented his decline as a composer in that time; they are still not among the most liked this day. Will they ever? Doubt it, unless the basic aesthetic value change.

The late works aren't 'romantic' and personally I think they represent the peak of Beethoven's achievement, regardless of popularity which is a most unreliable indicator of worth.

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 03-01-2005).]

[Chris]

Originally posted by Peter:
The late works aren't 'romantic' and personally I think they represent the peak of Beethoven's achievement, regardless of popularity which is a most unreliable indicator of worth.

I must agree with Peter. You say "Doesn't matter which professor say how beautiful the Hammerklavier is, people don't listen to it as often, as excitingly as Fur Elise." I certainly do, and I imagine many others here do too.

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Chris:
I must agree with Peter. You say "Doesn't matter which professor say how beautiful the Hammerklavier is, people don't listen to it as often, as excitingly as Fur Elise." I certainly do, and I imagine many others here do too.

Often, I will reserve these later works for special occasions as I consider them above the earlier works. These works are not for casual listening, nor for background fodder. They require effort and with effort they give much back to the listener.

[spaceray]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
These works are not for casual listening, nor for background fodder.

When ever I hear the Late String Quartets
I can't help but wonder what reaction Beethoven's contemporaries must have had .In one scathing review a critic expressed sympathy for the"poor composer" whose ailment affected his abilty to create beautiful music.
I love them , especially opus 131.

[Uniqor]

I see old topics, I see old names...

I'll just concentrate on the late work: for me, many of them sound radiculas. I have no intention od telling myself that I'm totally wrong, nor forcing myself to read a stack of books which would "enlight" me. When beethoven knocked so hard on those disscordant chords out of the middle of a silence in his last sonata, I almost spilled my coffee out... So really, life is to short to become "musically intellegent" - 1. because there are so many other work which you like the very first time you listen, and when you listen, you just listen; 2. because when intellegent comes to a certain degree, it's just abtrusive, which is really, another word for dumb. Again, I don't care which professer reckons the Hammerklavier is the "ultimate", "miracle" or "fantastick", I stick to the pleasure of the most - the beauty of Fur Elise. I consider living a qualitier life when enjoying Fur Elise, than busting my head, working off my sweat, trying to appreiciate the 50 minutes long Hammerklavier in full.

Peace...

[spaceray]

Whenever I hear "Fur Elise"it is someone's cell or a person banging out the first 8 bars on the piano before looking up to explain that it is the only thing they can play.I can't be certain now if I have ever heard a quality performance of this piece.Is there a great one?
Didn't Beethoven him self once protest that he had forgotten that he'd written it?

[Uniqor]

Do people have to discredit the stuff that they don't like in order to tell themselves that thier own stuff is likable?

Really? Out of somebody's cell? See the magic of Beethoven's little piece - even the scumbags love it!



[This message has been edited by Uniqor (edited 03-02-2005).]

[Peter]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spaceray:
I can't be certain now if I have ever heard a quality performance of this piece.Is there a great one?

The piece has been recorded by many great pianists, Schnabel and Brendel to name a few.

Didn't Beethoven him self once protest that he had forgotten that he'd written it?

Beethoven was referring to his 32 variations in C minor


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'Man know thyself'