Playing Beethoven/Mozart/Bach

[Chris]

And what about other instruments? Would a forte on the violin be different for Beethoven and Mozart?

[Uniqor]

Hi, have you ever come across a situation where the bar on the score is marked mp, but you'd really prefer it to be f? I personally have these problem often, so the best conclusion that I can draw from this is: every musician should aim to create, if he wants the best of art for him. That's all I'm saying.

[KyleC]

yes i understand what your saying. and often i do the same thing you just have to keep it within reason i believe. and there are certain dynamics within a given dynamic. if it is marked mp you could play p in some parts in mf or f in other parts just as long as it comes across as rather quiet like mp should be. and like i said i often do that. i get excited and will start playing much louder than should be. i think it is a good sign if you are feeling that because that lets you know you are feeling the music and are playing with emotion.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chris:
And what about other instruments? Would a forte on the violin be different for Beethoven and Mozart?

The composer and the character of the piece all have to be taken into account regardless of instrument, but I am primarily speaking about the keyboard. There is a gentler more feminine quality to Mozart (and Chopin) than Beethoven who I think of as masculine. When Chopin performed his works he was criticised for being too weak, not enough power a la Liszt - well this was precisely because he didn't want that quality of sound.

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'Man know thyself'

[william jesset]

William Blake (1757 -1827)-on creativity;

I must create a system or be enslaved by another man's;
I will not reason and compare; my business is to create.

my criteria is : are you playing with passion? or simply to gain favor with your teacher? its all part and parcel of YOUR interpetaion- if you begin to stifle yourself,that will only be a disadvantage in your development as an Artiste.
Good Luck and all the best to you

[Bessy]

/B][/QUOTE]

A tip for you piano players. I came up with the most wonderful way to find classical sheet music. On ebay, I found someone who sells sheet music on CD's (all copyright friendly) Some of them have a hundred songs and you can buy it for $12. All the classics and then some... check it out.
Ebay.com under 'sheet music'

[Peter]

Originally posted by william jesset:
William Blake (1757 -1827)-on creativity;

I must create a system or be enslaved by another man's;
I will not reason and compare; my business is to create.

my criteria is : are you playing with passion? or simply to gain favor with your teacher? its all part and parcel of YOUR interpetaion- if you begin to stifle yourself,that will only be a disadvantage in your development as an Artiste.
Good Luck and all the best to you

There is a difference between interpretation and distortion! A student needs guidance in order to learn how to express themselves creatively whilst maintaining respect for the music score and style of the composer.

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'Man know thyself'

[Bessy]

Originally posted by Peter:
There is a difference between interpretation and distortion! A student needs guidance in order to learn how to express themselves creatively whilst maintaining respect for the music score and style of the composer.

If you listen to various interpretations there are always subtle differences in dynamics. When do you think it is a deal breaker? Isn't your take on a piece natural? (unless you are by yourself and who cares at that point??) I always worry about interpreting pieces correctly, but then music is art - and art should be enjoyed. But to another's expense? I was at a concert once and Fur ELise was so fast, I had to stand up and leave. Your thoughts?

[Chris]

Originally posted by Bessy:
I was at a concert once and Fur ELise was so fast, I had to stand up and leave. Your thoughts?

That's a first. That piece is usually played so sloooooooooooowly that I get droooooooooowsy...ZZZZZZZzzzzzzz

[Peter]

Originally posted by Bessy:
If you listen to various interpretations there are always subtle differences in dynamics. When do you think it is a deal breaker? Isn't your take on a piece natural? (unless you are by yourself and who cares at that point??) I always worry about interpreting pieces correctly, but then music is art - and art should be enjoyed. But to another's expense? I was at a concert once and Fur ELise was so fast, I had to stand up and leave. Your thoughts?

Yes of course, dynamics, rubato, rhythm, accenting and touch are all part of interpretation and not until Beethoven did composers really become more specific about such things - on just one page alone in Op.110 I think Beethoven gives around 50 different instructions to the performer! Artistry comes from communication, the ability of the performer to convey the composer's intentions to an audience, not merely reproduce notes.

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 03-10-2005).]

[Joy]

Originally posted by Chris:
That's a first. That piece is usually played so sloooooooooooowly that I get droooooooooowsy...ZZZZZZZzzzzzzz

I've heard it both ways. I guess it takes a skilled musician to play it 'just right'. I've also heard the first movement of The Moonlight played at record speed by none other than Glenn Gould. Didn't like that at all. I really like Arthur Rubenstein's tempo in most pieces. I heard his rendition of Beethoven's Opus 13 the other day and thought it was played beautifully.

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited 03-10-2005).]

[Bessy]

Originally posted by Peter:

Yes of course, dynamics, rubato, rhythm, accenting and touch are all part of interpretation and not until Beethoven did composers really become more specific about such things - on just one page alone in Op.110 I think Beethoven gives around 50 different instructions to the performer! Artistry comes from communication, the ability of the performer to convey the composer's intentions to an audience, not merely reproduce notes.

I love your thoughts on music, Peter. My skills are slipping because I have been so busy in my job and haven't played enough lately. What artist(s) do you recommend listening to for authentic representation? I too like Rubenstein, Joy. Moonlight at record speed?? Now that is a first for me!


[This message has been edited by Bessy (edited 03-10-2005).]

[Uniqor]

Take the Rach 3's first movement: Ashkenasty played it much slower than Horowitz, but they are equally popular recordings. So what do you say people? Which one is "just right"? I say, allegro ma non tanto doesn't mean anything at all, without the individual style of the pianist; otherwise, everybody would regard a midi version on Sibelius 3 as the best, since it's "just right"... this is exactly why we have so many great performers without being somehow ranked - we need variaty - we are different.

William Blake's wise enough to recognise this hard and simple fact. Anyone talks otherwise is naive beyond measure, and I don't need to think twice about it.

So KyleC, play it untill you actually enjoy what you hear. When you can do that with each piece you learn, you're already a great musician, and you'll enjoy playing the piano for the rest of your life as some sort of a bliss. If you keep asking around something like what's "just right", then you're on the artistically destructive way, and you'll end up smash your piano with you head.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Bessy:
I love your thoughts on music, Peter. My skills are slipping because I have been so busy in my job and haven't played enough lately. What artist(s) do you recommend listening to for authentic representation? I too like Rubenstein, Joy. Moonlight at record speed?? Now that is a first for me!

Paul Komen
Pianoforte: Salvatore la Grassa, Viennese school c. 1815
Sonatas 16-18
Globe GLO 5136 (1995)

Paul Komen
Pianoforte: Johann Fritz, Vienna 1825
Sonatas 21-23, Globe GLO 5118 (1994)

Paul Komen
Pianoforte: Conrad Graf, Vienna c. 1830
Sonatas 30-32 Globe GLO 5106 (1993)

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'Man know thyself'



[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 03-11-2005).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Uniqor:
this is exactly why we have so many great performers without being somehow ranked - we need variaty - we are different.

Well they ARE ranked - amongst the top players in the world! As I said in a previous thread tempo, rubato, rhythm, dynamics and articulation all have a flexibilty in interpretation and this is why simply playing a la metronome produces a robotic reproduction. Within a piece where metronome markings are given, the composer (and this certainly applies to Beethoven) did not wish a strict adherence throughout the work, but flexibility - try setting the metronome to any great recording of Beethoven sonatas and it won't work!

However this flexibilty is controlled, thought about and not merely random - a great artist analyses and works at every note, bar and phrase so that it blends with the whole and is convincing - the player isn't merely 'out of time'. One of the qualities you hear musicians talking about most is sense of rhythm and projecting this throughout a complete work is the hallmark of a great artist.

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'Man know thyself'