Beethoven ,s forced mistake

[ariel kofman]

Well, I don,t know how to start this topic , I,ll try to do my best effort with my English...I recently heard for first time the Grosse Fugue, op 133, (you must understand I,m just a relatively new fan of Beeth. music)and don,t know how could Ludwig allow himself to follow the advices from friends about removing it of the op 130 as the finale...I clearly see a parallel pattern that links up the final fugue of Op 106 (The Hammerklavier sonata )to the original finale of Op 130 quartet.
Both movements are giving an end to breathtaking and sublime slow ones(the adagio of Op 106, and the cavatina of Op 130), both composed in the fugue form , perhaps according with the new roads , plenty of metaphisical tendences, that Bee. was just starting to travel.
If somebody , more informed about the subject, can lead me to know more about this, I,ll be thankful.
That,s my opinion , I , d be wrong!!!!(dedicated to...)
Cheers , Ariel

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by ariel kofman:
I recently heard for first time the Grosse Fugue, op 133, and don't know how could Ludwig allow himself to follow the advices from friends about removing it of the op 130 as the finale.

That is a very good point. Since it took me many many hearings to understand the Grosse Fugue, I can understand the advices of Beethoven's inner circle. However, time seems to conquer all as more and more performers are returning the Grosse Fugue to its rightful place as the finale of opus 130 and using the replacement finale as an encore.

[Peter]

Originally posted by ariel kofman:
Well, I don,t know how to start this topic , I,ll try to do my best effort with my English...I recently heard for first time the Grosse Fugue, op 133, (you must understand I,m just a relatively new fan of Beeth. music)and don,t know how could Ludwig allow himself to follow the advices from friends about removing it of the op 130 as the finale...I clearly see a parallel pattern that links up the final fugue of Op 106 (The Hammerklavier sonata )to the original finale of Op 130 quartet.
Both movements are giving an end to breathtaking and sublime slow ones(the adagio of Op 106, and the cavatina of Op 130), both composed in the fugue form , perhaps according with the new roads , plenty of metaphisical tendences, that Bee. was just starting to travel.
If somebody , more informed about the subject, can lead me to know more about this, I,ll be thankful.
That,s my opinion , I , d be wrong!!!!(dedicated to...)
Cheers , Ariel

Well there are of course arguments both ways, but from a practical point of view one has also to consider the length of the work as well. The new finale Beethoven provided is witty and cannot really be played as a single piece whereas the Gross fugue can be played perfectly successfully on its own.

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'Man know thyself'