Works' main keys, please...

[Geratlas]

Can someone please bestow me with main keys for these works? (I have tried to assert many of them myself, mostly in vain.)
1) "Ritterballett" (According to a thorough comment on this work, all but one of its numbers are firmly said to be in D major, while "E flat" major is given in New Grove [2001])
2) Egmont Overture (both F minor and/or (only) C major???)
3) Opferlied (op.121)
4) Bundeslied (B-flat?)
5) Violin Romance (completely lost? --- called "no.3")
6) slow movement of Oboe Concerto
7) Adagio of the newly presented '1789 Piano Concerto'
8) Fantasy (op.77, I learned there are indeed several main keys to this, true?)
9) Rocco's Aria (D major, is it?)

[Rutradelusasa]

2) Egmont: F major
8) The title goes: "Fantasy Op.77 G minor/B flat major", strangely enough (this is the ONE piece from B that I don't care much, at least not now) it ends on B major (H in german keys).
9) Rocco's Aria: B flat major

the rest will take some time to dig up .

------------------
"Wer ein holdes weib errungen..."

[This message has been edited by Rutradelusasa (edited 02-08-2005).]

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Geratlas:
Can someone please bestow me with main keys for these works? (I have tried to assert many of them myself, mostly in vain.)
2) Egmont Overture (both F minor and/or (only) C major???)
5) Violin Romance (completely lost? --- called "no.3")
7) Adagio of the newly presented '1789 Piano Concerto'
8) Fantasy (op.77, I learned there are indeed several main keys to this, true?)

Egmont is in F-minor with a dramatic shift to F-major in the end.

Romance #3 is in E-minor.

The piano concerto adagio is in A.

The piano fantasy is in G-minor. This piece is perhaps one of the best examples of what a Beethoven improvisation sounded like.

[Peter]

The slow movement of the oboe concerto is in Bb.

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Geratlas:
Can someone please bestow me with main keys for these works? (I have tried to assert many of them myself, mostly in vain.)
4) Bundeslied (B-flat?)
9) Rocco's Aria (D major, is it?)

Both of the above are in B-flat major. I assume by "Rocca's aria" you mean the "Gold Song." BTW, you can actually hear the jingle of the coins in that aria!

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Geratlas:
Can someone please bestow me with main keys for these works? (I have tried to assert many of them myself, mostly in vain.)
8) Fantasy (op.77, I learned there are indeed several main keys to this, true?)

I have counted 8 changes of key signature in this marvelous piece. It starts in G-minor and ends in B-major. In between, there is F-minor, D-minor, A-flat major, D-major, C-major, and B-minor. And that does not count the multitude of times that Beethoven changes keys with accidentals.

[Geratlas]

What a fantastic response! Thanks everyone for your efforts...

Originally posted by Hofrat:
-I assume by "Rocco's aria" you mean the "Gold Song". BTW, you can actually hear the jingle of the coins in that aria!

"Gold Song" it is, Hofrat. There exists 2 versions of it (hess#109no5, and hess#112. The former was reused in the Fidelio score for the revival in 1814).

To summate, these items stand as clarified:
2) Egmont Overture: F minor - F major
4) Bundeslied: Bb major
5) Violin Romance "no.3": 'E minor'*
6) Oboe Concerto, slow mvt: Bb major
7) '1789' Piano Concerto, Adagio: A major
8) Piano Fantasy: -

Originally posted by Hofrat:
I have counted 8 changes of key signature in this marvelous piece. It starts in G-minor and ends in B-major. In between, there is F-minor, D-minor, A-flat major, D-major, C-major, and B-minor. And that does not count the multitude of times that Beethoven changes keys with accidentals.

Thus, is the fantasy somehow comparable to the key relations of the Preludes op.39 or is there impossible to determine an overall main key, here?
9) Rocco's "Gold" Aria: Bb major

Items not wholly clarified:
1) Ritterballett (D or Eb major? What's correct)
3) Opferlied (earlier version is in E major. How about op121b?)

*5) Violin Romance "no.3": 'E minor' (this unusual key is found in the 'Romanza cantabile' [hess#13] scored for flute, bassoon, clavier, with orchestra. I am therefore afraid that these works have gotten mixed with each other and that the E minor key does not refer to the Romance for violin [hess#11] apparently conceived 1816! Is there anyone out there able to confirm the authenticity or yet existence of this work???)

[Peter]

Items not wholly clarified:
1) Ritterballett (D or Eb major? What's correct)
3) Opferlied (earlier version is in E major. How about op121b?)


[/B][/QUOTE]

Op.121b is in E major. Op.77 uses 'progressive tonality' - ending up in a different key from which it starts, quite unusual for a classical work, indeed not until Mahler was this introduced into the symphony (I'm not referring to the Minor-Major change that occurs in Beethoven's 5th and 9th)

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 02-09-2005).]

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Geratlas:
What a fantastic response! Thanks everyone for your efforts...

Originally posted by Hofrat:
-I assume by "Rocco's aria" you mean the "Gold Song". BTW, you can actually hear the jingle of the coins in that aria!

"Gold Song" it is, Hofrat. There exists 2 versions of it (hess#109no5, and hess#112. The former was reused in the Fidelio score for the revival in 1814).

That is not exactly correct. In the 1805 version of *Fidelio*, the "Gold Song" appeared with a very sharp text that did not flatter the nobility. In the 1806 version of *Fidelio*, the "Gold Song" was cut in an effort to make the opera shorter. In the final version in 1814, the "Gold Song" was returned to the opera, but with a "softer" text.