Mozart's Piano Concerto no. 23

[Beyond Within]

This serves no real purpose; just say your bit about the matter.

The oddest aspect of this piece, in my view, would be the devastating second movement. Why so much tragedy nestled between the lively outer movements? It sounds almost romantic, like Schubert maybe. Such powerful music, my God...

[urtextmeister]

I have always felt this way, too.
Once in a while Mozart plunges unexpectedly into sadness and incredible poetry. Another great example is the rondo in a minor. Very sad, but never sentimental or wallowing. Maybe just reflecting on the frailties of human existence.

Reading some of the letters, one would think that Mozart was always composing to please others, but it is tempting to see these pieces as personal statements...

[Chris]

The 23rd is my favorite Concerto by Mozart, and one of my favorite contertos period. Period instruments serve this piece especially well. I can't even listen to it on modern instruments anymore, as a matter of fact.

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 12-31-2004).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Beyond Within:
This serves no real purpose; just say your bit about the matter.

The oddest aspect of this piece, in my view, would be the devastating second movement. Why so much tragedy nestled between the lively outer movements? It sounds almost romantic, like Schubert maybe. Such powerful music, my God...

Mozart was more a Romanticist than Beethoven.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Beyond Within]

In many ways I would agree; I am highly resistant to the notion that Beethoven was the first Romantic.

Chris: in this case, what makes the period instruments superior?

I generally don't like 'period instrument' interpretations: I find they lack the warmth the ADVANCES in instrumentation have blessed us with. Piano>>>>harpsichord. I enjoy 'period instruments' as an aside amusement, but I have never preferred a Harpsichord over a Steinway Grand Piano. No way.


[This message has been edited by Beyond Within (edited 01-01-2005).]

[Chris]

The shorter decay time of the piano and the different timbre in the lower register really make the difference for me. Also, the period horns really seem to add something here. I'll upload some mp3s later.

[urtextmeister]

I think I agree with Rod about Mozart being more a romantic. I think Mozart was more interested in presenting a self-contained lyrical mood such as this second movement without making it butt heads with a contrary idea. In this regard there is a certain connection with Schubert.

Authentic instrument performances are very important because they are..well..authentic. They can be very revealing of a composer's intentions. However, I agree with BW that sometimes you just want to hear the rich sonorities of modern instruments.

Here is one way to look at it: since performances of Beethoven and Mozart have been going on for some many years on modern instruments, this is sort of a genre in itself. We are taught in conservatories and colleges to play on modern instruments with that technique, that style and interpretation. It has a life of it's own.

One person described modern instrument performances of Beethoven as a "dream about Beethoven." Maybe the question is: do you prefer the "dream" about Beethoven or the "reality" of Beethoven.

[Chris]

As promised, here are the mp3s. A really first-rate recording by Malcolm Bilson/John Elliot Gardiner/The English Baroque Soloists.

http://www.gyrix.com/1_Allegro.mp31 - Allegro</a>
http://www.gyrix.com/2_Adagio.mp32 - Adagio</a>
http://www.gyrix.com/3_Allegro_assai.mp33 - Allegro assai</a>

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 01-03-2005).]

[Amalie]

Originally posted by Chris:
As promised, here are the mp3s. A really first-rate recording by Malcolm Bilson/John Elliot Gardiner/The English Baroque Soloists.

http://www.gyrix.com/1_Allegro.mp31 - Allegro</a>
http://www.gyrix.com/2_Adagio.mp32 - Adagio</a>
http://www.gyrix.com/3_Allegro_assai.mp33 - Allegro assai</a>

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 01-03-2005).]

Thankyou Chris,
Indeed this is an excellent performance, exciting and pleasing to the ear.
I very much enjoy listening to good authentic perfomances as well as modern.
I am into baroque at the moment and love exploring period instruments rare and unusual. The music produced by these instruments is simply exquisite.

There is a spirit to every age and every composer, and every piece of music.
In baroque times, secular and sacred life was very much inter-related, and music was to be enjoyed, but also respected as a spiritual gift.
Bach spoke often of a piece, its performance, and the instrumention or style with which it was performed as requiring 'gravitas'. More importantly, the spirit of baroque is charactarized above all by clarity. For the music is very contrapuntal, and every note, every line has its place.
Love and respect for the music, enjoyment in performance, and above all, clarity in the articulation, ensemble and recording balance. These are the true essentials of baroque music. If performance practice billed as 'authentic' on 'period' instruments can reveal these qualities and this spirit, then that is true authenticity.
If 'modern' instruments can do the same, then that too is 'authenticity'.
It is the spirit that counts.

~ Michael Sartoruis ~




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~ Courage, so it be righteous, will gain all things ~

[Chris]

Interesting point. I think you can hear some of this in Arthur Grumiaux's recordings of Mozart's violin concertos; the instruments are modern, but the style and orchestra sizes are rather authentic. It's a very interesting way of doing things, and these recordings are actually my favorite recordings of the Mozart violin concertos.

[urtextmeister]

That was very well said, Amalie.

The importance of every line IS part of what makes baroque music fascinating. Throughout the baroque era and the preceding eras, however, there seems to have always been some movement afoot to head in the other direction.
Monteverdi tried to defuse polyphony of the renaissance a bit in his operatic endeavors; certainly by the end of Bach's lifetime, his complex fugues were less in favor than the Roccoco single, glorified melody.

I agree completely with the need to hear separation and transparency with some works. I find it very difficult to listen to Mozart symphonies played by a huge symphony orchestra. It gives the general impression, but I want to see the grain, the details...

Thanks for the mp3s, Chris. I will download and listen.

[Beyond Within]

I agree completely with the need to hear separation and transparency with some works. I find it very difficult to listen to Mozart symphonies played by a huge symphony orchestra. It gives the general impression, but I want to see the grain, the details...
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Excellent point here.

[LudwigSebastianMozart]

for me, simply the greatest concerto ever written!

[Rutradelusasa]

Originally posted by Chris:
As promised, here are the mp3s. A really first-rate recording by Malcolm Bilson/John Elliot Gardiner/The English Baroque Soloists.

http://www.gyrix.com/1_Allegro.mp31 - Allegro</a>
http://www.gyrix.com/2_Adagio.mp32 - Adagio</a>
http://www.gyrix.com/3_Allegro_assai.mp33 - Allegro assai</a>

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 01-03-2005).]

I got a 'not found' is it already off? Could someone upload this again please ?

I have no recording of this . I have 20-21, 24-27

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"Wer ein holdes weib errungen..."

[Johan]

Originally posted by Amalie:
Thankyou Chris,
Indeed this is an excellent performance, exciting and pleasing to the ear.
I very much enjoy listening to good authentic perfomances as well as modern.
I am into baroque at the moment and love exploring period instruments rare and unusual. The music produced by these instruments is simply exquisite.

There is a spirit to every age and every composer, and every piece of music.
In baroque times, secular and sacred life was very much inter-related, and music was to be enjoyed, but also respected as a spiritual gift.
Bach spoke often of a piece, its performance, and the instrumention or style with which it was performed as requiring 'gravitas'. More importantly, the spirit of baroque is charactarized above all by clarity. For the music is very contrapuntal, and every note, every line has its place.
Love and respect for the music, enjoyment in performance, and above all, clarity in the articulation, ensemble and recording balance. These are the true essentials of baroque music. If performance practice billed as 'authentic' on 'period' instruments can reveal these qualities and this spirit, then that is true authenticity.
If 'modern' instruments can do the same, then that too is 'authenticity'.
It is the spirit that counts.

~ Michael Sartoruis ~

Yes Amalie!

This is happening to me also! I have almost neglected baroque music in recent years. Then after having heard Handel's Nisi Dominus I just couldn't wait to get it myself on CD. At the same time the opera company here in Åbo gave "L'incoronazione di Poppea" (Monteverdi). Nothing seems void of significance. And a certain place in the universe was certainly the way of thinking in this (mostly) absolutistic time. And our symbolic needs (yes!) are satisfied in abundance.

Melodies seem here always to caress you...