Op. 31, no. 1

[Scriabin]

Hi,

I just found this site yesterday. It is wonderful. My other home is over at 'chopinfiles.com'. Anybody know it?

Anyway, seeing as you lot are the beethoven specialists, I was wondering if I could get an opinion.

I am giving a recital soon and I was wondering what you think of the programme.

Programme
F. Couperin – Les Barricades mystérieuses

L.v.Beethoven – Sonata no. 16, op. 31, no. 1

F. Chopin – Four Mazurkas op. 67
Ballade no. 3, op. 47

<Interval>

F. Liszt – Transcendental Etude no. 1
Sonetto del Petrarca 104

A. Arensky – Elegie op. 53, no. 3
Etude op. 53, no. 6

S. Rachmaninoff – Prelude op. 32, no. 10

C. Debussy – La plus que Lente
Prelude book 1, no. 7

A. Scriabin – Etude op. 2, no. 1
Poeme op. 32, no. 2
Poeme op. 72 ‘Vers La Flamme’

Regarding the Beethoven sonata, do you think the op. 31, no. 2 (Tempest) sonata would be a better choice. I would like to give the op. 31, no. 1 sonata an airing because it is rather underplayed but I only really like the 1st mvt. The other two are rather poor. (In my opinion.)

What are your thoughts on this sonata?

[Peter]

Well first off that is a very interesting program - certainly contrasting and varied. The only criticism I would make is that it seems a bit unbalanced in that you have 2 big works in the first half, Beethoven sonata and a Chopin Ballade, then the rest of the program is really made up of smaller pieces.

Op.31nr1 is probably the least popular of Beethoven sonatas and is as you say rarely played - however, I would have thought it unwise to perform a sonata you don't really like - after all, if you don't like it you're not going to convince an audience!

Having said all that, of course only you know your strengths and I'm sure you'll give a fine recital - good luck!

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'Man know thyself'

[Rutradelusasa]

I agree with Peter on the balance issue. But if you are only between op.31 n.1 and n.2, go with n.1, or else you'll unbalance it even further. The n.1 is more cheerful and the audience won't be tired after it. It's to get them asking for more, where the n.2 can be quite mentally exausting.

Good luck!

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"Wer ein holdes weib errungen..."

[lvbfanatic]

Originally posted by Scriabin:
.... Regarding the Beethoven sonata, do you think the op. 31, no. 2 (Tempest) sonata would be a better choice. I would like to give the op. 31, no. 1 sonata an airing because it is rather underplayed but I only really like the 1st mvt. The other two are rather poor. (In my opinion.)

What are your thoughts on this sonata?

Dear Scriabin


Oh do go ahead with the number 16 op 31.. it has an absolutely wonderful final movement and an absolutely brilliant ear and attention catching opening movement.

What is unbelievably fascinating in this work is the manner in which Beethoven captures your interest and draws you into the dynamics of the work. The second movement is as masterfully sublime and mystical as the many other pensive passages of this genius' masterpieces (for example the 2nd of the 4th and 5th piano concertos or the middle movements of his sonatas for piano and cello).

Because this particular gem is not as regularly played as, say, the Moonlight or the Pathetique, it should not be consigned to perdition. It needs airing and is a very welcome bit of Beethoven genius.

Please do go ahead with it. In live performance it will hypnotize!



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A Calm Sea and A Prosperous Voyage

[atserriotserri]

Originally posted by Scriabin:
Hi,

I just found this site yesterday. It is wonderful. My other home is over at 'chopinfiles.com'. Anybody know it?

Anyway, seeing as you lot are the beethoven specialists, I was wondering if I could get an opinion.

I am giving a recital soon and I was wondering what you think of the programme.

Programme
F. Couperin – Les Barricades mystérieuses

L.v.Beethoven – Sonata no. 16, op. 31, no. 1

F. Chopin – Four Mazurkas op. 67
Ballade no. 3, op. 47

<Interval>

F. Liszt – Transcendental Etude no. 1
Sonetto del Petrarca 104

A. Arensky – Elegie op. 53, no. 3
Etude op. 53, no. 6

S. Rachmaninoff – Prelude op. 32, no. 10

C. Debussy – La plus que Lente
Prelude book 1, no. 7

A. Scriabin – Etude op. 2, no. 1
Poeme op. 32, no. 2
Poeme op. 72 ‘Vers La Flamme’

Regarding the Beethoven sonata, do you think the op. 31, no. 2 (Tempest) sonata would be a better choice. I would like to give the op. 31, no. 1 sonata an airing because it is rather underplayed but I only really like the 1st mvt. The other two are rather poor. (In my opinion.)

What are your thoughts on this sonata?

That's an interesting programme, certainly. As stated on other posts, regarding the LvB sonata you have to feel comfortable and convinced of what you play. If the only aspects you put on the balance to play no.1 are airing it and the 1st movement, I guess you should reconsider it, even though I agree with rutradelusasa (perhaps it fits better than no.2).
I guess you should think that it's your recital and you must feel comfortable and confident with your own repertoire (if you are with no. 1 go ahead, but you don't seem convinced of it for your writing)...

[PDG]

Don't be fooled by Op.31/1. Beethoven was incapable of writing poor music, and if nothing else, the G major serves to put its two named siblings into context. This is restrained Beethoven; he knew he had to relent sometimes. And as a canny businessman, an "easy on the ear" sonata in the mix could only help to bolster sales!!

And after all, what would Haydn have given to write it?

[Michael]

Anyone who thinks Beethoven has no sense of humour should listen to the second movement of this sonata (Op. 31/1). It has to be a complete send-up and I can't imagine B playing it with a straight face. At the same time, it is an absolutely gorgeous piece - a contradiction only Beethoven could achieve.
Michael

[Scriabin]

I agree that the sonata is hilarious. It is very much a parody on the poor tastes of lesser artists.

Perhaps my writing gave you the wrong impression of my thoughts. I do like the sonata (why else would I have learnt it?)and I love playing lesser know works I just find that the 2nd mvt is too long and contains allot of superflous material.

I think I will programme it though. Either that or Schumann's Davidsblunder. Depends how I feel on the day. I like to keep the audience guessing as to what I am going to play next. That is a little trick Geoffrey Tozer taught me. I know both works equally well.

(Thinks...I once got annoyed at a college audience after I gave a short recital (45 min) because they kept pestering me for more and more encores. So, I sat down and played Stockhausen's Klavierstucke no IX. That taught them! Busoni once did a similar thing but with the COMPLETE goldberg variations!

[atserriotserri]

Originally posted by Scriabin:

(Thinks...I once got annoyed at a college audience after I gave a short recital (45 min) because they kept pestering me for more and more encores. So, I sat down and played Stockhausen's Klavierstucke no IX. That taught them! Busoni once did a similar thing but with the COMPLETE goldberg variations!

That's what I call encores!

[Scriabin]

I think it was Ax (possibly not) who often plays the complete op.26 sonata as an encore!

[Ellery]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scriabin:

Programme
F. Couperin – Les Barricades mystérieuses

L.v.Beethoven – Sonata no. 16, op. 31, no. 1

F. Chopin – Four Mazurkas op. 67
Ballade no. 3, op. 47

<Interval>

F. Liszt – Transcendental Etude no. 1
Sonetto del Petrarca 104

A. Arensky – Elegie op. 53, no. 3
Etude op. 53, no. 6

S. Rachmaninoff – Prelude op. 32, no. 10

C. Debussy – La plus que Lente
Prelude book 1, no. 7

A. Scriabin – Etude op. 2, no. 1
Poeme op. 32, no. 2
Poeme op. 72 ‘Vers La Flamme’

You are going to play all that in just one recital!!! I think the same as the others, you have to play something bigger in the seccond part, play less small piezes.

[PDG]

Originally posted by Michael:
Anyone who thinks Beethoven has no sense of humour should listen to the second movement of this sonata (Op. 31/1). It has to be a complete send-up and I can't imagine B playing it with a straight face. At the same time, it is an absolutely gorgeous piece - a contradiction only Beethoven could achieve.
Michael

Agreed, Michael. A trick he also achieves with aplomb with the Rondo finale of Op.130 (on his death bed!) and the Scherzo of Symphony #8, of course, to name but 2 others. Mozart's "A Musical Joke", on the other hand, achieves the wrong effect for me. A joke too far?

[Scriabin]

Yes, it is a long programme.

BTW - There is an interval between the Chopin and the Liszt.

I know that the 2nd half is composed of shorter pieces but it is of the same length as the 1st.

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Scriabin:
Yes, it is a long programme.

BTW - There is an interval between the Chopin and the Liszt.

I know that the 2nd half is composed of shorter pieces but it is of the same length as the 1st.

Maybe its not a bad idea having shorter pieces at the end. Sometimes people get a bit weary in the second half and the shorter pieces are easier to digest.

[Florestan]

The last days I have been reading some of the threads from the weeks before I joined this group. This remark by Scriabin, on the 2nd movement of Op.31 no.1, made me startle:

[B]I agree that the sonata is hilarious. It is very much a parody on the poor tastes of lesser artists.....I love playing lesser know works I just find that the 2nd mvt is too long and contains allot of superflous material.

I have always liked the cheerful and jovial first of the Op.31 sonatas best of the three, not least because of the 2nd movement Andante grazioso! For me it is absolutely elegant, noble. "Poor taste"? Ok, then I have poor taste! And every time I come to measure 298 in the 1st movement, I must think of the hilarious Swiss editor (Nägeli) who inserted two measures on his own behalf...