Gustav Mahler

[atserriotserri]

Originally posted by Peter:
Also a Requiem, Stabat Mater and Te deum!

And the Inno delle Nazione (Hymn of the nations).

[Big D]

Dear Internet Friends:
I have never had the fortune to see a live performance of any classical artist that was worth a hill of beans. Someday I hope to,though. Until then, my records will have to do!
Regarding two composers mentioned, Berlioz and Chopin, I have never felt great affection for either. Berlioz's Symphony Fantastique has never inspired or moved me in any way. Instead, it's only given me a headache. But that's just my opinion!
Chopin was a much better composer than Berlioz, but most of his music leaves me,well, restless. His two Piano Concertos were-and still are-a huge disappiontment to me. However, a record by Van Cliburn called "My Favorite Chopin" has impressed me a great deal. Regarding his style as a whole, however, I don't know: there's just something about Chopin that make me intolerably sad whenever I hear his music.
Regarding Mahler, I've never heard anything by him; although from what I've heard, criticism of his works seems split.


Much Love,
Big D

[This message has been edited by Big D (edited 11-08-2004).]

[MhB]

I have been a Beethoven lover for years now (I'm only 18 at the moment) and a Mahler lover for about 4 years. I can only say about the direction this discussion wanders into that there is no single greatest composer (or group of composers for that matter). I strongly agree with the Shostakovich comment. As for Chopin, Berlioz, Bach, etc. I love them all, for sometimes extremely different reasons; they all bring something into our lives, so will 'ya quit yaking?! If you don't understand a composer, or if you find him too-this or too-little-that, why don't you try, but honestly? Of course they're not all that balanced, but need they be? Instead of complaining about differences of opinions, why not celebrate it and learn something on the way.

[atserriotserri]

Originally posted by Big D:
Dear Internet Friends:
I have never had the fortune to see a live performance of any classical artist that was worth a hill of beans. Someday I hope to,though. Until then, my records will have to do!
Regarding two composers mentioned, Berlioz and Chopin, I have never felt great affection for either. Berlioz's Symphony Fantastique has never inspired or moved me in any way. Instead, it's only given me a headache. But that's just my opinion!
Chopin was a much better composer than Berlioz, but most of his music leaves me,well, restless. His two Piano Concertos were-and still are-a huge disappiontment to me. However, a record by Van Cliburn called "My Favorite Chopin" has impressed me a great deal. Regarding his style as a whole, however, I don't know: there's just something about Chopin that make me intolerably sad whenever I hear his music.
Regarding Mahler, I've never heard anything by him; although from what I've heard, criticism of his works seems split.


Much Love,
Big D

[This message has been edited by Big D (edited 11-08-2004).]

Sadly I'm very close to agree on your first statement and even sadly, I've missed recently 2 chances to see performances that could have made me change my mind (Schiff's Goldberg Variations & Brendel & son LvB cello sonatas).
I don't know much about Berlioz, but regarding Chopin, somehow you're right, depending on what you've listened at. He said apparently that if health didn't help him, the only feelings he could transmit through music would be very sad and disturbing, and on his last years he said to a friend in a letter something like (I'm translating to english the spanish translation from... french??): "I work a little, I erase a lot".

Nevertheless, you can find etudes, waltzes, polonaises, impromtus, mazurkas... bright and cheerful. Or perhaps you mean his music makes you feel sad because of his short life and struggle? That would be different. I listened last week to Arriaga's symphony. He was called "the spanish Beethoven" and died in Paris at the age of 25!! Composed a number of chamber works, 1 overture, an opera a couple of symphonic poems and the symphony. Doesn't seem work of a teenager, it's solemn, mature, but you can't avoid thinking what he could have done.
Piano concertos? There's a theory that they were composed for a chamber formation, not an orchestra, and there's a recording I must find of that, apparently remarkable.
I haven't listened at that Van Cliburn, have a decent number of Rubinstein recordings and he is awesome. There's at least one budget remastered recording of his waltzes & impromptus, I reccomend it to you.

[Harvey]

... but the supreme pleasure of hearing the Toronto Symphony Orchestra's musical director Peter Oundjian conduct the First Symphony of Gustav Mahler. .

I heard my first Mahler, Symphony #1, last fall conducted by Muti at Hill Auditorium on the campus of the University of Michigan. I had gone for Beethoven's 5th, but realized that the Mahler sounded very nice, and different. I did nothing more until a couple weeks ago I thought to get a Mahler #1 but a whole cycle came up (Bernstein 1960s) cheap used so I grabbed it. Now I am a Mahler fan and frankly, I am ranking him right up there with Beethoven as a great symphonic composer.

[hal9000]

I don't love all of his symphonies (his 7th and 8th have been quite elusive to my sensibilities), but his other symphonies - the 6th and 9th especially, and the last movement of the 3rd - I love wholeheartedly and I consider them some of the greatest music ever written.

Haffner I agree with your post (though like Spaceray I'm not sure why the Chopin displeased you!). Nothing compares to a live performance, music is a shared experience and this is lost on a Walkman!'

I think there's some truth to this quote from Hachi: A Dog's Tale:

"I tend to think that there's an element of music that cannot be captured. Life cannot be captured. Human heart cannot be captured. The moment of creation itself is fleeting."

And I smiled at the Walkman comment. Who foresaw that in 12 years we could watch some of the greatest performances a click away? In keeping with Mahler, one of my favourite performances is from the late great Abbado at the Lucerne Festival. And part of that is because of Abbado. Watching Abaddo, a man who just a few years earlier had been diagnosed with cancer, react to that final movement is incredibly moving. I don't know if the thread creator would include video performances, but I have my doubts I would be as moved by a live performance as I have been watching this video performance.

[Albert Gans]

I have seen all of Mahler's symphonies performed, except his 8th, and quite a few of them more than once... only recently, I saw the Resurrection Symphony in London with the LSO and Harding. Mindblowing...
For me, seeing an orchestra is a very different experience than 'just listening' to one. And some music should be seen as much as heard.
If the first already gave you this kick, just wait till you see the exhilarating end of the second... or the pianississimo ending of the 9th. Such silence with sound is amplified x times by the silence of the audience. It is always amazing to see that at that moment, very often the coughers in the audience even forget to cough....
Mahler is particularly stunning to see, but being the orchestrator he was, that is not really a surprise. Another piece I advise anyone to go and see and enjoy the view of is the Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta from Bartok. Also quite something. Try and get a seat where you can look down on the orchestra (a balcony seat, very often).

[Harvey]

I have seen all of Mahler's symphonies performed, except his 8th, and quite a few of them more than once... only recently, I saw the Resurrection Symphony in London with the LSO and Harding. Mindblowing...
For me, seeing an orchestra is a very different experience than 'just listening' to one. And some music should be seen as much as heard.

I am watching this one now. Very excellent performance, but Rattle seems extreme on facial expressions (perhaps the Cecilia Bartoli of conductors):
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KugLAIzW3u8[/YOUTUBE]

Image not showing so here is link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KugLAIzW3u8
Mahler: Symphony No. 8 / Rattle · National Youth Orchestra of Great Britain

[Peter]

Mahler's 3rd was performed at the BBC proms a few nights ago with Bernard Haitink and the LSO, available here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/events/e3pn3d#b07m4954

[Harvey]

Simon Rattle coming to Ann Arbor, Michigan to conduct Mahler's 7th. I plan on buying tickets. That will have my concert agenda up to Mahler 7, Messiah, Beethoven's Ninth, and Beethoven's Missa Solemnis over a 6 month period starting this November.

[Sorrano]

Anyone familiar with the Levine recordings of the Mahler symphonies?

[Harvey]

Anyone familiar with the Levine recordings of the Mahler symphonies?

I have not heard any of the Levine Mahler recordings. There is a set that is short two symphonies, one of which is available separately, but I am not sure Levine has a complete cycle.

[Decrepit Poster]

Anyone familiar with the Levine recordings of the Mahler symphonies?

I own his seventh on CD and the fifth on LP. Haven't listened to either in some years. To the best of my recollection, I was quite impressed with the seventh's three inner movements, but thought the sound of flanking movements too congested. Also, there was a bit of too-obvious imaging manipulation, so that, say, the tuba, which for the most part was locked in proper acoustic position within the orchestra, magically appeared in another position when spotlighted for solos. Admittedly, this observance springs from a time when I had an audio system that was 'very' revealing of imaging and soundstage. Also, my hearing was still sufficient to noticing such things, which is no longer the case.

As to the fifth, I first heard it as an over-the-air FM broadcast and was extremely taken with it. I managed to tape almost the whole of the final movement on reel-to-reel tape. The few people I played it for were equally impressed. Oddly, I later bought it on LP and was not nearly as impressed by the sound quality, which led me to downgrade the interpretation.

One of my favorite Mahler Five recordings is, so far as I know, found only at YouTube, a live-concert filming of the Barcelona Symphony Orchestra under Eiji Oue.

Another all time favorite fifth; a concert I attended in the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion with the L.A. Philharmonic under Zubin Mehta. This was back in the mid 1970s. Though I already had tinnitus, as well as slight hearing loss in the right ear, overall my hearing was still quite good. I shelled out what was for me big bucks for a choice seat in the Founders Circle, and boy was the sound good! Orchestra and conductor smoked! It blew me away. I didn't even mind that the brass section tired not long before the end and started cracking notes...it added to the excitement. Or so it seemed at the time. An irony. I returned to Pavilion two or three seasons later for another flfth performed by the same forces, and thought the experience a snooze-fest.

[Sorrano]

Thanks! I happened across the Levine set that Harvey mentioned but haven't had the opportunity to listen to them yet. I haven't listened much to Mahler, but thought that might be a good excuse to start.

[Decrepit Poster]

Thanks! I happened across the Levine set that Harvey mentioned but haven't had the opportunity to listen to them yet. I haven't listened much to Mahler, but thought that might be a good excuse to start.

Something I meant to mention but forgot in the heat of battle. Newer releases of the Levine 5th and 7th might well have remedied acoustical complaints I had back in the day.

Also, I'm almost positive I've heard Levine's Mahler 3, which was highly regarded when released. It's not in my disc collection. Must have been borrowed from a friend (or heard elsewhere). Sadly, I can't recall what I thought of it. My favorite recorded Mahler 3rd at the time was the L.A. Phil/Mehta recording, which I owned as a London Records LP. Speaking of Mehta and Mahler 3, here's an excerpt from the finale movement from a concert by the Berlin Philharmonic. I'm quite taken with it.