Authentic page mp3s - Violin Concerto Op.61

[Peter]

Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

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'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

Thanks, Rod, this was a good one! It lacked most of the ugliness usually present in period strings playing solo.

[Gurn Blanston]

Rod,
Excellent! This had all the beauty that I invariably associate with HIP performance, the violin had that nice, gutty bite to it. Also, I thought that the cadenzas seemed like real violin cadenzas, not that rather lame and tame piano cadenza adaptation that one usually hears. Super!
Thanks,

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Regards,
Gurn
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That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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[Peter]

I like this lively rendition and it's on my Christmas shopping list. I wondered about this arrangement of the piano cadenza - on my version it is adapted for Violin by Wolfgang Schneiderhan - is this adaption by Thomas Zehetmair?

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I like this lively rendition and it's on my Christmas shopping list. I wondered about this arrangement of the piano cadenza - on my version it is adapted for Violin by Wolfgang Schneiderhan - is this adaption by Thomas Zehetmair?

Yes in the first movement he uses the arrangement of Beethoven's piano cadenza with the drums - the only cazenza to be played fo this concerto!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 11-18-2004).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
Thanks, Rod, this was a good one! It lacked most of the ugliness usually present in period strings playing solo.

I categorically disagree about the 'ugliness'! In fact I would suggest the soloist here is a little too 'modern' in his manner of playing, but this is the number-one recording of Op61 at the moment, free from all the lameness which usually plagues interpretations this concerto.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 11-18-2004).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Yes in the first movmement he uses the arrangement of Beethoven's piano cadenza with the drums - the only cazenza to be played fo this concerto!

Yes but there is more than one version of this and I simply wondered if this was his own adaption?

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Yes but there is more than one version of this and I simply wondered if this was his own adaption?

Oh I see, I am pretty sure it is Schneiderhan's. I'll report back if it is not.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
In fact I would suggest the soloist here is a little too 'modern' in his manner of playing...

As soon as I heard this recording, I knew you were going to say that at some point

[Rod]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
Rod,
Excellent! This had all the beauty that I invariably associate with HIP performance, the violin had that nice, gutty bite to it. Also, I thought that the cadenzas seemed like real violin cadenzas, not that rather lame and tame piano cadenza adaptation that one usually hears. Super!
Thanks,

Your welcome. The benefit of gut stringing is that his offers this rasping 'bite' as you say, but also the option of something velvety smooth and extremely flexible - no modern concoction can produce quite the same combination.



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Amalie]

Thanks Rod,

A wonderful rendition of this brilliant mercurial and powerful work, I very much love this Concerto !



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~ Unsterbliche Geliebte ~

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Oh I see, I am pretty sure it is Schneiderhan's. I'll report back if it is not.

Did you find anything out about this?

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Did you find anything out about this?

It is Schneiderhan's as I thought.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
Rod,
Also, I thought that the cadenzas seemed like real violin cadenzas, not that rather lame and tame piano cadenza adaptation that one usually hears.

I just noticed this comment! I must say that from the many cadenzas i have heard to this music only Schneiderhan's arrangement of the Beethoven piano version have come anywhere near to being worthy of the remainder! The violinist must have been lame! I've heard some original contemporary efforts (both modern and authentic) that were absolutely awful. There are 3 authentic recordings of this piece that i know of - the current one, Gardiner's and the Hanover Bands. The latter two suffer from the usual lame direction in the allegros, but Bruggen gets it spot on.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
It is Schneiderhan's as I thought.

Here is more information on Schneiderhan's arrangement of the cadenzas in his own words:

In my opinion, preference must unquestionably be given to Beethoven’s own cadenzas, and all the more so since our age has awakened a sense of fidelity and responsibility to the authentic text. I therefore tried in numerous re-workings of the material to adapt appropriately the pianoforte technique to that of the violin. In this two considerations were paramount: above all to keep Beethoven’s concept as pure as possible, and then to adjust the existing technical difficulties (in keeping with the character of the two instruments) one against the other.
If, for example, all the chromatic runs of the first cadenza (a matter of course on the
pianoforte) were required of the violin, they would sound to the listeners like highly
virtuoso passage-work in the manner of Paganini.
Through frequent public performance of my cadenza sketches, I was forced to
decide to alter certain passages, since chromatic runs, octaves, and scales in tenths
would greatly disturb the concept of the whole concerto; and then in the interest of
general harmony between the parts, to shorten a little the cadenza to the first
movement and to recommend the non-repetition of the two parts of the March.
I have fought for every note I had to steal from Beethoven, but here I was comforted
by the thought that through this simplification I was also serving the spirit of the composer.
In this connection I should like to say that as regards the difficulties of violin
technique Joachim’s cadenza, for example, dating from the virtuoso era, was filled
with chromatic runs on all four strings, with left-hand pizzicati and highly virtuoso
passages, leaps and double-stops. I tried to approximate the technique of Beethoven’s
cadenzas to the technique of the solo violin, whereby I must add that every
cadenza at that time placed greater technical demands on the performer than are
present in the work itself. One detail worthy of note is Beethoven’s especially queer and interesting idea of providing a kettledrum accompaniment to
a part of the cadenza to the first movement. One is reminded of “Fidelio”.
(Op. 61 was composed in 1806; the first and second versions of Op. 72 [“Fidelio”]
in 1805 and 1806. The first pianoforte reduction of the opera was not published
until 1810, while the cadenzas date from 1809 or earlier.) My original scruples that
the tone of the drum mixed better with that of the pianoforte than with that of the violin
were dispelled in actual practice. I should still like to call attention to a
slight editorial mediation. I added to the close of the second cadenza, a bar (albeit
written by Beethoven himself) that in the violin concerto is the only indicated transition-
bar to an extemporized cadenza. I was loth to cut it out entirely and therefore
effected a compromise between the violin and pianoforte cadenzas, with the result
that the pp (of the pianoforte arrangement) was now best omitted.
The third cadenza is without doubt intended for bar 92. The principal cadenza
of the third movement is placed where Beethoven wrote the word “Cadenza”. The
third movement thus contains two cadenzas, which is by no means unusual.
My transcriptions seem justified since they can also serve as stimulus for other
versions. The juxtaposition of Beethoven’s cadenzas for the pianoforte arrangement
and my versions for the violin enable a comparison.



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'Man know thyself'