The most obscene uses of classical music

[ruudp]

Originally posted by Vipercat:
The worst thing for me is crossover music, like for instance "Mozart Mix" or something like that where they put a beat to classical music. I can't stand it, it ruins everything!

One example of classical music being misused in the media aired on our National Television in a local soap. A perverted guy captured a girl he was in love with (she wasn't in love with him), and held her hostage. His hero was Mozart!!! :-(

They also played Mozart's Piano Concerto no.21 in the background can you believe it? This made me cross because it tried to picture Mozart lovers as demented criminals, whereas Mozart's music has the total opposite effect.

What do you hold then of tom parkers attempts in the late 1980's in making the "young" beethoven, mozart,verdi and others??It was a cd box containing al favourite songs of our beloved masters being remodelled and 'suited" for the contemporary TASTE...

[Beyond Within]

I think some of you missed the 'point' of Clockwork Orange, and the role Beethovens 9th played in it.

Only a perversion in morality can attempt to contrive universal brotherhood (with the mind conditioning presented in the film) and this perversion was ironically shown the beautiful statement of B's 9th becoming incompatable with a 'reformed' person.

My only problem with the movie was the surreal cinematography - I simply dont understand what purpose that served.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Beyond Within:
The Nazis using classical music isnt obscene to me, because atleast they were glorifying it.

I think the playing of classical music in the death camps added to the obscenities practised - how awful for these people to be tortured by having heaven presented admist hell.



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'Man know thyself'

[Gregorian]

I know exactly how everyone feels. Trying to depict true music as empty, shallow, and mindless is horrible. MTV has made music covering a span of over a thousand years of diverse and complex musical traditions look old and boring to this new vulgar trash by untalented 'musicians' who should get real jobs.

What really disturbs me though, is how Sacred music is used in the same way. I think car commercials using the Dies Irae from Verdi's Requiem should be fined.

[william jesset]

Originally posted by Peter:
I think the playing of classical music in the death camps added to the obscenities practised - how awful for these people to be tortured by having heaven presented admist hell.

William responds,
Perhaps, as this reply is based in Pythagorean principles, IE. neutrality in between the space of postive and negative.
As a Third Eye postion to see and understand as much as I can, during this small tenure in
time and space,to free myself of one sided observations that block understanding.
Having then set the senario of polarity,Ie "Good and Evil" as the Whole. Allow me to postulate further so perhaps you too may understand.
Then perhaps,as in the case of the way I feel of Beethoven's music, as the closet one can come to 'feeling' the unity of your God and the best in man. As the more I see/hear/learn of Beethoven's legacy to mankind via his music, his place in the history of mankind as one of the greatist spiritual mystic's is comfirmed each day as I look around my world. (my opinion only)
Regrettably as the aforementioned atrocities took place perhaps the 'playing of classic's'
was the 'balance' that the universe needed to help the souls that were sacrificed in the name of UNHOLY.
As I grow weary of this dialoque concerning
the relationship, that others percieve, by association of Wagner(as are other mystic/composers in the same breath) with this UNHOLY sect. You then perhaps will miss the 'spirit' that these great works were created in.
THIS IS NOT condoning ANYTHING other than my belief in the 'power' of great music while also acknowleging the "power' of questionable
music(you know it as you hear it, its your perspective).
Whether Movies (Clock Work Orange) TV/MTV,whatever form the transmission, the question I ask, is DO YOU get it? Have you been made a better soul. Do not patronize yourself to think that I listen to, or like Beethoven ETal "im a good person". Its only the LINK to higher consciousness of being. Via the "creative force' that these mystic's are in tune with. In the case of Beethoven, his own personal travails,his sacrificed love/relationships ,WERE all for YOU aka mankind. He worked for a higher cause, a"eroica' calling.
I Thank You for your graciousness,
William Jesset
I only ask are you "in tune' with your surroundings?

[Vipercat]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
VC
Surely you have seen "A Clockwork Orange" where the "hero" is an all out gangbanger with a love of Beethoven that surpasses even ours!? I wonder what THAT says...?

Well, no, I haven't seen it yet, but by the description of it it doesn't sound too good!

[william jesset]

Originally posted by Vipercat:
Well, no, I haven't seen it yet, but by the description of it it doesn't sound too good!

William Writes;
Don't cheat yourself of the experience though
I could suggest better things to watch. The positive is that those who could see and hear beyond the film were exposed to the "Ode to Joy"theme> A more powerful motif is NOT to be found anywhere. As I have said BEETHOVEN was 'tapped' wired' to the creator. NO matter the transmisson signal its MOST important that YOU get it and this movie, for me was the
source of that transmission>
Please I wish for you to understand as you are a part of my experience of life.
Your Friend and Servant Wm Jesset

[King Stephen]

Originally posted by william jesset:
William Writes;
Don't cheat yourself of the experience though
I could suggest better things to watch. The positive is that those who could see and hear beyond the film were exposed to the "Ode to Joy"theme> A more powerful motif is NOT to be found anywhere. As I have said BEETHOVEN was 'tapped' wired' to the creator. NO matter the transmisson signal its MOST important that YOU get it and this movie, for me was the
source of that transmission>
Please I wish for you to understand as you are a part of my experience of life.
Your Friend and Servant Wm Jesset

Good Lord, William, What has all you have said on this subject got to do with the price of eggs in Idaho? This is a laid-back site for discussions on Beethoven and classical music in general not a podium for philosophical views. Lighten up.

[william jesset]

Originally posted by Gregorian:
I know exactly how everyone feels. Trying to depict true music as empty, shallow, and mindless is horrible. MTV has made music covering a span of over a thousand years of diverse and complex musical traditions look old and boring to this new vulgar trash by untalented 'musicians' who should get real jobs.

What really disturbs me though, is how Sacred music is used in the same way. I think car commercials using the Dies Irae from Verdi's Requiem should be fined.

William responds;
Again the polarity of the universe has USED
these methods to present the wheat with the chaffe. As to which is which, thats where your perspective comes into fill the gaps of the others, so that every possible combination of notes are used,to create this harmony of life as we know it. Myself I have to see every possible aspect I can ,then I can make my determination. Which is IF you want to see MTV as trying to make TRUTH shallow and mindless, which, and I'd like to share this with you as I hope it will move you as it does me. THIS as you decribed it ,
is the FUNNIEST **** I have ever heard.
Ok we all agree MTV/Tv at times is mindless? right? then is it not MORE mindless of them to think they can change matter/truth to thier level? So mindlessness begats mindlessness and< if that is thier agenda,as you know it is, because they can't profit from Music that is now public/world Domain.EUREKA!! You, and I,I hope have to see the PROOF that BEETHOVEN and all of those who lived for art, have had a higher purpose for y(our) benefit,than a corperation selling soft drinks ads back to back with pimple creme ads, Hahaha, with MTV/contract artist's.
HoHaha thats great, Thank you GREG, as my understanding is made clearer though you.
Wm Jesset hahahaha I hope "they'
continue that 'modus operandi' STOP IT i can't stop laffing at them ,its your fault GREG haha thank you

[william jesset]

Originally posted by King Stephen:
Good Lord, William, What has all you have said on this subject got to do with the price of eggs in Idaho? This is a laid-back site for discussions on Beethoven and classical music in general not a podium for philosophical views. Lighten up.

William responds in a light hearted mood;
Dear King,
haha yes I glad you didn't read my threads prior to my formatting problems being resolved.
Yes, How Do you feel about Beethovens use of the diminished chord? Was it a direct extrapolation of Bach's technique/experiments via Hayden's lessons? Ie as a 'back cycle? Perhaps to give more 'momentum' to a static minor chord passage? Can you explain to me "what is he thinking" in terms of modulations, most specificly the transition of Ab minor to the Major in the Third movement of the Cello sonata Op102 No2 ? I would appreciate you thoughts,insights to this. Is it indicative of resignation through
endurance in referance to his age and travails as opposed to the "heroic's of a earlier period. Or is it an attempt at progression in how one uses the form of the Fugue. Would you concur?
The Topic you brought up about Philosophy and music. I must confess I just can't see it myself, I mean To Think that there are those who?! would suggest that the 9th Symphony is a symbol of deceptive idealism? (T Mann. Dr Faustus) I require you input sir before, I convict myself to any such absurd notion.
So getting back to "the nuts' and bolts' of Music and Beethoven. Like the time Beethoven demanded a motif from Mozart to improvise upon, If not eggs from Idaho,which topic then sir? shall we keep alive the memory of Unholy
Deutschland Politic's of the last century and thier contributions to MUSICA MUNDANA? Better still how about Tv and how I have no control over there control of MY music experience. As I never have made any proposals to purchase any of my products on this site ,except to express dialoque your suggestion will be noted.
I look forward for more enlightenment from the chicken shack in Idaho.
in your debt
Wm Jesset

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by william jesset:
I look forward for more enlightenment from the chicken shack in Idaho.
in your debt
Wm Jesset

Hey! I know a few chicken shacks in Idaho!

But back on topic, this thread should be renamed to "The most obscene ABUSES of classical music."

[Ambassador]

Thought I would put in my two cents on this topic.

Worst abuse of classical music would have to be preset mobile phone tunes!! ALL OF THEM!!

Bach's Tocatta and Fugue, Wagner's Ride of the Valkryes (Spelling?), you name it. Single note beepings repeated after 20 seconds as a means of getting someone's attention and most likely interrupting whatever was going on around them. In buses, business meetings, social functions, and sporting matches.

The horror of having classical masterpieces used as alarms and attention grabbers, played at such an annoying pitch that the actual beauty of a tune is lost.

I mean, you might as well use the Psalms to wrap fish and chips.

I think while the objection that these new "recontextualising" of the music is meant to be a celebration of something great, or somehow justified as "homage", the truth of the matter is, in this uneducated, unappreciative 21st century, people won't look appreciate the "emotional significance" involved in using Beethoven's 9th in a "Toilet Duck" advertisement. It is cashing in on the sentiment of music, the surface only, not the depth of it.

In Art, such treatment of certain artistic masterpieces is referred to as "Kitsch". Andy Warhol's use of "The Last Supper", the numeral re-contexting of the Mona Lisa, taking something great and admirable, and making it something secular and marketable.

I can't recall who made the quote but it was in reference to the mass reproduction of musical masterpieces. "What we have seen is the reduction of Art to the level of the commonplace" - ummm... Ted Giolla (some jazz and general music theorist).

At any rate, that truth remains. Try comparing seeing the Eiffel tower to simply looking at a postcard of it. There is no comparison. Try walking into the Sistene Chapel and looking at "The Creation of Adam", and then look at a business card with those famous two hands reaching towards each other and promoting "Financial Solutions".

That "lowering of Art" takes place on so many levels. There was once a point where an artwork was an original, hand crafted, or personally performed piece. Something which required a journey, in order for it to be seen, or listened to. People would travel to a theatre to see a show, or sit in an auditorium to listen to music, walk into a gallery to view an artwork. There was an air of reverence and respect, concentration and attention.

Now the journey is no longer needed. Music is on the radio, and cd's, shopping centers, we are not rid of it. It is performed live far too rarely, meaning that the appreciation for both composer, musician and music has been diminished. Artworks are printed, and recorded, reduced in size, "borrowed" and REPRODUCED in mass, to accomodate to larger numbers of people. Kissing off originality for the chance of capturing a broadening market and increased exposure. And instead of this art and music, being looked at, examined, absorbed, it is merely in place as diversion, distraction, aesthetic interruption, background music, and computer "wallpaper".

How many times have you heard Claude Debussy's "Claire de Lune" throughout movies? The most beautiful piece of piano music I have ever heard (just my opinion). and while the sentiment can be there, try standing two metres from a piano and see someone play it before your very eyes, hear those chords fill a room, and you cannot help but take a few steps back, bow your head, and maintain a revered silence.

When will the sacred be returned to it's place of honour?
Just a general complaint I suppose, but for me, mobile phone tunes take the cake as the ultimate abuse.

Ambassador.
P.S. For those of you who like reading long theses on music and art, may I recommend Walter Benjamin's "Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction" a pretty dense but very true examination of how art, it's presentation and it's audience has changed.

[v russo]

Originally posted by Amalie:
Oh Brave New World, such creatures that are in it!

As I have thought many times, the book -Brave New World by Aldous Huxley best describes western society nowaday's.
There is a kind of poverty of aspiration in society and classical music whith its majestic and enobling sweep simply does not fit into the new dispensation.
Still, we have to keep plugging the message and not give up that classical music is incomparably greater than other music.
I am sure there are many other teenagers interested in classical music. One of the things it does reqiure however, is the courage to switch off from pervasive contemporary culture around us.
The media today, suggests that it is too challenging and therefore must bring it down to the lowest common denominator.

I know we don't wish to infect our ears listening to trash culture shredding the classics, but here is an example of Beethoven's 5th being mangled! http://www.greatkat.com/54/composers.html

This kind of thing has been happening for years.
Let us take heart and end on a hopefull note. Classical music will always survive! and who knows, with the right conditions we might see a Renaissance of Classical music listening.
Don't forget the vast numbers of CM CD's that ARE being sold.


[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited 07-18-2004).]

Why is the term that is used for intentionally shocking or bad taste...the lowest common denominator? That term in itself has a 'political correctness' to it that smells like B.S. to me. The lowest common denominator can be many things, yet, in contemporary society it is often calculated and executed low moral behavior in various ways.



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v russo

[v russo]

it seems that in the end modern society wants to build better consumers, not better individuals.

The intellect is not encouraged (high arts, etc...) nor is the spirit (religion- and the strain and contradiction that political correctness puts on faith and worship).

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v russo

[Gurn Blanston]

v.
Sadly, you are so right. Not only is being outstanding "not encouraged", it is actively discouraged. One wouldn't want to make one's "peers" feel badly by outdoing them in any significant, non-athletic sort of way, for example, by listening to Beethoven instead of Madonna. Now, I am depressed. You really need to quit pointing this stuff out. I'm going to go listen to my Evita soundtrack, you b*&^%$# !


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Regards,
Gurn
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That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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