Fragility of Sound System...

[euphony131]

I've noticed time and again the importance of having a decent sound system or audiopile-quality headphones (Grados are my fav) to truly savor Classical Music.

Trying to turn others onto Beethoven has been near impossible with the equipment so many people normally have. Pop music is very forgiving -- with its steady bass beat and synthesizers and whatnot -- on even poor equipment, but Beethoven begs for higher-end stuff. I always feel cheated trying to listen to Classical in somebody's stock car system or budget-buy stereo.

It's a shame because so many people don't know what they're missing, thus the prevailing stereotype that all Classical has a "boring" sound. I myself cannot afford the truly high-end stuff, but the best recourse has been using Grado headphones -- that's right, I get the best sound, for my money, from a pair of cans set on my ears. It's not for everyone granted, but if you don't have the bucks or the right room acoustics I think it really is the way to go.

I assume others have noticed the problems I've mentioned, especially when trying to show a newcomer to the delights of B.? It can really be infuriating with all the shoddy stuff people use to listen to Pop music and since that's what most people only listen to they don't bother to get better equipment.

I once heard a Dvorak symphony that someone was playing out of their TV and it was just godawful, no wonder that person hardly listens to Classical!

[This message has been edited by euphony131 (edited 02-13-2001).]

[This message has been edited by euphony131 (edited 02-13-2001).]

[Michael]

Certainly with a composer like Beethoven you would need a reasonably decent sound system, if only to deal properly with the dynamic range of his music. If I ever win the lottery, the first thing I will purchase is a really high-end system, although, thanks to CD, it is now possible to get good sound without having to sell your house.
I am a great headphone fan, too, and last Christmas I treated myself to a really good pair of Sennheisers. I find I actually prefer listening to works like the late quartets through cans. I think it brings me a little closer to the way Beethoven heard that music - in his head.

Michael

[Rod]

We have a bog-standard Bush portable stereo at work which, as has been said, is fine for pop music, but I can't listen to my own music on the machine. Beethovens music requires greater dynamic range than the speakers can offer, though some music will not be saved by having this extra range - I had the misfortune to listen to Mahler's awful 5th Symphony at the weekend on good quality headphones. I must have had too much time on my hands.




------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Luis]

Originally posted by Rod:
We have a bog-standard Bush portable stereo at work which, as has been said, is fine for pop music, but I can't listen to my own music on the machine. Beethovens music requires greater dynamic range than the speakers can offer, though some music will not be saved by having this extra range - I had the misfortune to listen to Mahler's awful 5th Symphony at the weekend on good quality headphones. I must have had too much time on my hands.

WoohOOW wait a minute!!! Oh yes; I can’t believe what I’ve read, but Rod has been listening Mahler!!! Ok, Rod, you called the 5th awful, but still, you spent 70 minutes hearing it!!! (There wasn’t anyone holding gun in your head or something like than, was it??) What happened then? Have you suddenly get yourself right into SM? Most likely, maybe after all there still is a spark of hope for you, my friend
As you somewhat implied, time is obviously the first premise on the enterprise I’m still not sure you’d like to pursuit… but money, willingness and some guidance are others! If you have the first two ones, I can modestly take a part on the later. So here I go. You HAVE to listen Mahler’s 2nd by Bernstein conducting the NYPO on DG before totally dismissing Mahler!! This is not the cheapest one (31U$) but it’s the very best version of the best Mahler symphony. Just go to the CD shop (you can go with sun glasses or maybe a fake beard!!) and listen to the first 6 minutes of the first and fourth movement and the last 6 minutes of the 5th mvt. Then, if you dare, come here and say it didn’t blow your head off! (but you have to promise me you’ll hear this version).
I don’t think you’ll finally end up being a mahlerite; but, who knows, maybe someday you could say “I can barely hold the puke with every single Mahler symphony, except for the 2nd, which is not that bad after all”. Coming from you, with that I would feel content.

By the way, I’m not a psycho even though ( ) I like Mahler!!!

PS: It’s good to “see” you back guys!

Luis.

[This message has been edited by Luis (edited 02-15-2001).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Luis:
WoohOOW wait a minute!!! Oh yes; I can’t believe what I’ve read, but Rod has been listening Mahler!!! Ok, Rod, you called the 5th awful, but still, you spent 70 minutes hearing it!!! (There wasn’t anyone holding gun in your head or something like than, was it??) What happened then? Have you suddenly get yourself right into SM? Most likely, maybe after all there still is a spark of hope for you, my friend

No hope and no expense was paid by myself, it was on the Radio, switching between stations at some of worst moments. His attempts at rhetoric are laughable on occasion in this work.

Originally posted by Luis:

As you somewhat implied, time is obviously the first premise on the enterprise I’m still not sure you’d like to pursuit… but money, willingness and some guidance are others! If you have the first two ones, I can modestly take a part on the later. So here I go. You HAVE to listen Mahler’s 2nd by Bernstein conducting the NYPO on DG before totally dismissing Mahler!! This is not the cheapest one (31U$) but it’s the very best version of the best Mahler symphony. Just go to the CD shop (you can go with sun glasses or maybe a fake beard!!) and listen to the first 6 minutes of the first and fourth movement and the last 6 minutes of the 5th mvt. Then, if you dare, come here and say it didn’t blow your head off! (but you have to promise me you’ll hear this version).
I don’t think you’ll finally end up being a mahlerite; but, who knows, maybe someday you could say “I can barely hold the puke with every single Mahler symphony, except for the 2nd, which is not that bad after all”. Coming from you, with that I would feel content.

By the way, I’m not a psycho even though ( ) I like Mahler!!!

PS: It’s good to “see” you back guys!

Luis.

After hearing what Bernstein can 'do' with Beethoven I'm not sure about your recommendation! I honestly cannot understand why anyone who likes Beethoven would want to listen to Mahler, but let me know when they let you out of the asylum! If we are to give other composers a chance I suggest it is you who should spend some time listening to the Masters favourite Handel, try Theodora - 200 minutes of non stop sublime music, written at a stroke (I recommend a miraculous staged video production by the Orch of the Age of Enlightenment at the Glyndebourne FO) - what I call REAL music!

Rod

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Michael]

Originally posted by Luis:
WoohOOW wait a minute!!! Oh yes; I can’t believe what I’ve read, but Rod has been listening Mahler!!! Ok, Rod,
By the way, I’m not a psycho even though ( ) I like Mahler!!!

PS: It’s good to “see” you back guys!

Luis.

[This message has been edited by Luis (edited 02-15-2001).]

Luis, how did you get that smiley icon to blink? I can't even get the ordinary yellow one.

As usual, raising the tone of the discussion,
Michael

[Chris]

Yellow one
Winking one
Eyes popping one
Confused one
Big grin one
Sad one

There are others...

[Suzie]

PS: It’s good to “see” you back guys!

Luis.


Group hug!!!

[Luis]

Rod,
Would you please recommend me some findable version of Theodora? Here are a few: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/se...160788-4010922

Some of them costs almost 50$ ( ) but within some time I could afford it if the recording really worth the investment...

From some examples I've heard on Amazon, I'd say I'm not really impressed; But I could give it a better listening on a record store here. In Buenos Aires the cost of this kind of CDs is ridiculous! (My Bernstein's M2 costs 50$!) so if it's possible try to recommend me a good enough version to listen here and the best available to buy on Amazon. Would you?

Many thanks, Luis.

PS: To know how to put some face that is already on a message, you could "reply with quote" it for then seing the "code" on the original message. The face above is two points rolleyes two points.
By the way, is there any page containing all the possible images?

[This message has been edited by Luis (edited 02-15-2001).]

[Luis]

Originally posted by Suzie:

Group hug!!!

[Luis]

(About Mahler “enhancements” of Beethoven symphonies)
1) I don’t see disrespectful from Mahler’s part to make some modifications/additions on B’s symphonies! (By the way I've heard He also made some others on the overtures, the 5th Piano Concerto as well as with the 'serioso' quartet!)
2) From my part I’ve only listened to the ninth (you could find some examples here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...160788-4010922 ) and the modifications are rather modest. Moreover, I'd say that if this CD is not worthy of acquire, this is not because of it having too much Mahler, but because there isn’t enough! In my opinion, it would have being much more “interesting” if it had had more “qualitative” rather than “quantitative” modifications. Here on the ninth, Mahler only restrained himself to add four French horns, woodwinds and a tuba just to emphasize some moments.

The National Symphony Orchestra of Washington performed last year the Mahler’s arrangements of B’s symphonies on their “Beethoven festival” but I’ve never heard of any recording other than the one I mentioned.

Luis

[This message has been edited by Luis (edited 02-15-2001).]

[Peter]

I think it rather presumptive and arrogant of anyone to think they can improve on Beethoven ! I presume by 'qualitative' you mean you wish Mahler had completely reorchestrated certain passages - why and to what purpose ?
------------------
'Man know thyself'



[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 02-16-2001).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Luis:
Rod,
Would you please recommend me some findable version of Theodora? Here are a few: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/se...160788-4010922

Some of them costs almost 50$ ( ) but within some time I could afford it if the recording really worth the investment...

The video recommentation I gave is the best version, on Channel 4 video I think. It is good quality stereo and half the price of the best CD versions, which I know are ridiculously expensive. Problem is a lot of Handel stuff is 3 CD's long which works out expensive for new releases. You get little change from £50 for a good Handel opera in London. Theodora is in many respects similar in plot to Fidelio, in fact Florestan's opening dungeon aria sounds rather Handelian! The best CD version is a new recording on Archiv label, can't remember by who (McCreesh I think) by but the box is silver if that's any help!

Rod


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I think it rather presumptive and arrogant of anyone to think they can improve on Beethoven ! I presume by 'qualitative' you mean you wish Mahler had completely reorchestrated certain passages - why and to what purpose ?

Quite right, and yet you rate Mahler above AC/DC despite this heinous crime! You'd never even dream of Beethoven attempting to re-write, say, Mozart's best works for example. This is a mark of character and self-discipline in an artist. Yet Mozart thought he was clever enough to 'improve' a number of Handels best efforts! Of course M totally missed the plot with Handel and his 'improvements' are today nothing more than curiosities.


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Yet Mozart thought he was clever enough to 'improve' a number of Handels best efforts! Of course M totally missed the plot with Handel and his 'improvements' are today nothing more than curiosities.

Well the only work by Handel I'm aware of that Mozart retouched is Messiah - he probably did so in order to stimulate interest in a composer who only a few decades after his death was considered old hat and hardly ever performed. At least Mozart thought Handel worth bothering with - as did Haydn who was inspired to write his Oratorios after hearing a performance of Messiah in London.

------------------
'Man know thyself'