Authentic page mp3s - Piano sonata Op.57

[Peter]

Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

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'Man know thyself'

[Peter]

I like this recording - again it is a copy rather than a reconditioning of an 1814 Nanette Streicher. Beethoven though admiring Streicher's pianos, at first had reservations, but he wrote to them in 1817, that since 1809 they had been his preferred instruments. At the time of the Appassionata, Beethoven would still have been in possession of his 1803 erard with which he was not satisfied as he requested another instrument in 1804 from Matthaus Stein (brother of Nanette Streicher).

What is puzzling in all this is the sheer number of pianos Beethoven owned or rented in his lifetime, so even though he expressed a preference for Walter, Stein and Streicher, he obviously never felt totally satisfied.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I like this recording - again it is a copy rather than a reconditioning of an 1814 Nanette Streicher. Beethoven though admiring Streicher's pianos, at first had reservations, but he wrote to them in 1817, that since 1809 they had been his preferred instruments. At the time of the Appassionata, Beethoven would still have been in possession of his 1803 erard with which he was not satisfied as he requested another instrument in 1804 from Matthaus Stein (brother of Nanette Streicher).

What is puzzling in all this is the sheer number of pianos Beethoven owned or rented in his lifetime, so even though he expressed a preference for Walter, Stein and Streicher, he obviously never felt totally satisfied.

Well the world of the professional's piano was not dominated by one manufacturer as it is today. There were dozens of piano makers in Vienna in Beethoven's day. But the 'Stein' company became 'Streicher' through marriage as you know and was generally the brand for the true connoisseur. But I see no reason to stick blindly to one brand, and in any case Beethoven usually performed on what was available on his musical travels. Bearing the latter point in mind one could say that Beethoven's recorded negative comments re the fortepiano are remarkably few and far between, certainly compared to some of the vituosos of the modern era, some of whom have been incredibly fussy with the modern piano. As you also know Beethoven rejected the Erard because its heavy Anglo/French action was unplayable to him.

Regarding the mp3 I think the performance is excellent, and proof that an early piano can easily handle this piece, even if it is a little 'late', though there is something about Tan's Streicher copy that is not quite right. It sounds a little too 'tightly strung', for want of a better phrase, to me. Or perhaps it is the pitch too high or the tuning (which I have commented before, being equal temperament, is not authentic), or EMIs consistantly inconsistant sound quality. A minor quibble but something that is consistant with his many recordings using this instrument.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin




[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 09-29-2004).]

[Joy]

I don't think Beethoven was ever totally satified with anything in his lifetime. Interesting about how he owned so many different pianos though. Seems like he was always searching for the 'best' sounding one. I like this recording too! Very nice sound and good tempo, doesn't seem to be 'rushed'. I'm so used to listening to my verison by Bernard Roberts that it's difficult for me to get used to another version but this I liked. Until Beethoven composed his Sonata, Opus 106, I read where he regarded Opus 57 as his greatest achievement in sonata writing.

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited 09-29-2004).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Joy:
I don't think Beethoven was ever totally satified with anything in his lifetime. Interesting about how he owned so many different pianos though. Seems like he was always searching for the 'best' sounding one. I like this recording too! Very nice sound and good tempo, doesn't seem to be 'rushed'. I'm so used to listening to my verison by Bernard Roberts that it's difficult for me to get used to another version but this I liked. Until Beethoven composed his Sonata, Opus 106, I read where he regarded Opus 57 as his greatest achievement in sonata writing.

Of course you really need to hear all the movements together not just one to get the full impression, but Roberts recording on Nimbus is a good one of op57. I used to have the complete sonatas by Roberts but gave them all away after I got too used to the fortepiano! You are right about Beethoven's assessment of the piece.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 09-29-2004).]

[ruudp]

Originally posted by Peter:
Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

oooowwww..
goody goody goody goody
the appassionata ATLAST....
it sounded superb but a little bit faster as other recordings I've got...GREAT piece of work...sooo virtuoso and difficult...

[Joy]

Originally posted by Rod:
Of course you really need to hear all the movements together not just one to get the full impression,
but Roberts recording on Nimbus is a good one of op57. I used to have the complete sonatas by Roberts but gave them all away after I got too used to the fortepiano! You are right about Beethoven's assessment of the piece.

Of course you're right about listening to the piece in its entirety. I have the complete Roberts sonatas and enjoy them very much but I'm also opened to other ideas i.e. authentic instruments. I seem to enjoy them both for now.



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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Rod]

Originally posted by ruudp:

oooowwww..
goody goody goody goody
the appassionata ATLAST....
it sounded superb but a little bit faster as other recordings I've got...GREAT piece of work...sooo virtuoso and difficult...

I think the tempo is pretty much spot-on in the mp3. This movement is often laboured too much.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 09-30-2004).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Joy:
Of course you're right about listening to the piece in its entirety. I have the complete Roberts sonatas and enjoy them very much but I'm also opened to other ideas i.e. authentic instruments. I seem to enjoy them both for now.

Well I have bought just about all of Beethoven's piano music you can get, a few times over, performed on the modern piano. But eventually fp recordings started to appear on the scene and once I'd heard a few of these is was very difficult for my to go back to my old collection, much to the displeasure of my now empty wallet. the only CD's on the modern piano I listen too are those where there is to date no fp alternative, or the interpretation with the fp is so bad i can't listen to it.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin



[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 09-30-2004).]

[Rod]

Here's a link:
http://www.raptusassociation.org/son23e.html

Haven't read it yet, might be good.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Gurn Blanston]

Rod,
Really enjoyed this interpretation. I love the FP anyway, so i don't need to be sold on it, and the way these arpeggiated runs just jump off the keyboard can't be beat. Thanks!

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Regards,
Gurn
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That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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[Chris]

Thanks, Rod. Although I found this lacking compared to the modern grand as usual, it was an excellent interpretation. Tempo, etc. were all excellent.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
But I see no reason to stick blindly to one brand, and in any case Beethoven usually performed on what was available on his musical travels.

Well experience teaches better the devil you know! Having tried out virtually every manufacturer and different actions by 1826 he still was not satisfied, I forget his precise words, something like 'the piano is and remains an imperfect instrument'.

I know you have no preference for reconditoned fps over copies but I certainly hear a difference and I believe a copy brings us closer to the original sound and that reconditions do the hp movement no favours.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Well experience teaches better the devil you know! Having tried out virtually every manufacturer and different actions by 1826 he still was not satisfied, I forget his precise words, something like 'the piano is and remains an imperfect instrument'.

I know you have no preference for reconditoned fps over copies but I certainly hear a difference and I believe a copy brings us closer to the original sound and that reconditions do the hp movement no favours.

Well what he meant by imperfection is open to conjecture, but for me the modern piano, as far as Beethoven's music goes at least, is even more imperfect now than the old ones were then. In which case Beethoven's comment is still relevant today.

Regarding copies v's original fps, you are correct I would accept modern versions built today in mass production if they met the correct criteria. Some copies are better than some originals I have heard, but with some brands this is not the case - I've yet to hear a Graf copy that is better than an original, which is why all of the late piano music which will appear at the mp3 page will be using original Grafs, including Beethoven's own.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 10-03-2004).]