Der Freischütz

[Beyond Within]

I recently purchased this opera; my fathers obsessive rantings finally broke me.

Another reason was because I wanted to practice German in a useful way, no more dry exercises listening to tapes in the language lab! Viktoria! Viktoria!

I have listened to the first half: This is really ejoyable material. I was attracted by the storyline, nothing like the classic 'selling your soul to the devil'! It makes for great drama.

This is one of my first forays into seriously listening to opera, I know enough German now to no longer require the crutch of a libretto translation. There are a few things here and there that I miss, but wow, its so much more enjoyable to understand the dialogue immediately! I must learn italian...

You all are filled with valuable music information concerning the works discussed, feel free to FIRE AWAY!

[Sorrano]

I think that von Weber's music is highly underrated. While he is certainly no Beethoven he does deserve some respect and attention. You'd probably enjoy his other operas, too.

It would have been wonderful to have known German when I watched a DVD reproduction of Wagner's Ring cycle. I could have done away with the annoying subtitles that I had to rely on so much to know what was going on.

Good job! And I'm glad you enjoyed the von Weber!

[Joy]

Amen, Sorrano! Those annoying subtitles! I had to rely on them also while watchig "The Ring" cycle many years back. Just once I would like to watch an opera without having to rely on them or a program!

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Beyond Within:
I recently purchased this opera; my fathers obsessive rantings finally broke me.

Another reason was because I wanted to practice German in a useful way, no more dry exercises listening to tapes in the language lab! Viktoria! Viktoria!

I have listened to the first half: This is really ejoyable material. I was attracted by the storyline, nothing like the classic 'selling your soul to the devil'! It makes for great drama.

This is one of my first forays into seriously listening to opera, I know enough German now to no longer require the crutch of a libretto translation. There are a few things here and there that I miss, but wow, its so much more enjoyable to understand the dialogue immediately! I must learn italian...

You all are filled with valuable music information concerning the works discussed, feel free to FIRE AWAY!

Now that you can understand German you are ripe for the master of German Romantic opera, Wagner. I recommend avoiding the Ring, and starting with Tannhauser and/or Lohengrin. These are earlier operas, not as long as the later ones, but the music is great throughout.



[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 09-28-2004).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Now that you can understand German you are ripe for the master of German Romantic opera, Wagner. I recommend avoiding the Ring, and starting with Tannhauser and/or Lohengrin. These are earlier operas, not as long as the later ones, but the music is great throughout.

[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 09-28-2004).]

How about Fidelio!?

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'Man know thyself'

[Joy]

The music is so great in Fidelio I don't even mind the subtitles or reading a program!I'm just engrossed in the music!!

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Peter:
How about Fidelio!?

I thought I would catch you or Rod out on this one and I even predicted (to myself) the punctuation!... Notice I said ROMANTIC. Der Freischutz is a ROMANTIC opera. The poster enjoyed this Weber opera and might enjoy hearing other German ROMANTIC operas, if his reaction is any indication, more than CLASSICAL ones. If he had enjoyed a Mozart opera would you recommend Wagner... or Gluck... for his next opera composer? H'mmm?

You are not suggesting there is anything ROMANTIC (not CLASSICAL) about Fidelio, are you? You have taught me better!...still, all that heavy sturm und drang about human rights...hmm-m... I vunder... :-)


[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 09-28-2004).]

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Now that you can understand German you are ripe for the master of German Romantic opera, Wagner. I recommend avoiding the Ring*...


[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 09-28-2004).]

*Perhaps forever.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
I thought I would catch you or Rod out on this one and I even predicted (to myself) the punctuation!... Notice I said ROMANTIC. Der Freischutz is a ROMANTIC opera. The poster enjoyed this Weber opera and might enjoy hearing other German ROMANTIC operas, if his reaction is any indication, more than CLASSICAL ones. If he had enjoyed a Mozart opera would you recommend Wagner... or Gluck... for his next opera composer? H'mmm?

You are not suggesting there is anything ROMANTIC (not CLASSICAL) about Fidelio, are you? You have taught me better!...still, all that heavy sturm und drang about human rights...hmm-m... I vunder... :-)


[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 09-28-2004).]

No but I thought the issue was one of language/subtitles, rather than classic/Romantic and as this is a Beethoven site, naturally I'd recommend Fidelio rather than Lohengrin!

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 09-28-2004).]

[Beyond Within]

I have Die Zauberflöte (German spelling = cooler) and love it a lot! However, I never really attempted to immerse myself in the world of a serious opera before the Weber.

I am holding off on Wagner for a while; I still dont fully understand his predecessors/have theory knowledge enough to fully appreciate what he did for music. If you have any other German opera suggestions, pre-Wagner...FIRE AWAY!

[Amalie]

Originally posted by Beyond Within:
I have Die Zauberflöte (German spelling = cooler) and love it a lot! However, I never really attempted to immerse myself in the world of a serious opera before the Weber.

I am holding off on Wagner for a while; I still dont fully understand his predecessors/have theory knowledge enough to fully appreciate what he did for music. If you have any other German opera suggestions, pre-Wagner...FIRE AWAY!

***

You might like to explore this link on HEINRICH MARSCHNER 1795-1861, who wrote German Romantic Opera, and who I must confess is a new one to me. I intend however to read all about him.
You can read the German text of a couple of his Opera's online:

Der Templers und die Judin, (The Templers and the Jews)

and HANS HEILING http://www.jmucci.com/opera/marshbio.htm


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~ Unsterbliche Geliebte ~

[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited 09-29-2004).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Beyond Within:


I am holding off on Wagner for a while; I still dont fully understand his predecessors/have theory knowledge enough to fully appreciate what he did for music. If you have any other German opera suggestions, pre-Wagner...FIRE AWAY!

Schubert - Fierabras / Alfonso und Estrella

Weber - Euryanthe / Oberon



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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 09-29-2004).]

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Peter:

Schubert - Fierabras / Alfonso und Estrella

Weber - Euryanthe / Oberon

Peter, I have read here and there that Schubert's operas are considered 'failures.'
They aren't in the repertory. Have you heard these and do you like them?

They may of course be dramatic 'failures' but have good music nonetheless.


[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 09-29-2004).]

[Rutradelusasa]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Peter, I have read here and there that Schubert's operas are considered 'failures.'
They aren't in the repertory. Have you heard these and do you like them?

They may of course be dramatic 'failures' but have good music nonetheless.


[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 09-29-2004).]

I'm not Peter , but a strong advocate of Schubert's, Weber's, Marschner's, et.al's operas. Specially those three but all from these period.
Alfonso und Estrella does have a bad action sense, that is, on it's three hours of opera, the first one and a half (First act and first scene of the Second) nothing happens, enough action to fill 15 minutes. On the other hand, the rest is marvelous. All the music is VERY worthy of hearing, btw. Suitner's recording on Berlin Classics (the only one, I guess, Harnoncourt's video isn't being sold, or released) has Edith Mathis, Fischer-Dieskau, Peter Schreier, Hermann Prey and Theo Adam as one of the best casts ever assembled.
Fierrabras is MARVELOUS, flawless, a new Fidelio, a new Freischütz (is it the F?), IMHO. Abbaddo and Protschká do a very marvelous job with the COE and Wunderlich has another recording on Mytho.

Marschner has very good operas too. Try his Hans Heiling with Hermann Prey and Joseph Keilbert on Opera D'Oro, a must. On Opera D'Oro you'll find another recording of Der Vampyr with Arleen Auger with is outstanding (aside from the engineer adjusting the sound on the first minute of the overture) and Protschká has a very good recording on an italian brand.

Schumann's Genoveva is also marvelous, try to find Masur's recording (with Fischer-Dieskau) on Berlin Classics and Harnoncourt's wonderful job on Telarc.

All Lortzing operas on EMI have amazing casts and are all worth hearing.

I'm out of time to detail these last (from Marschner on) but someone can finish my post later.

This is a lot to get started on this side of German opera (pre-Wagner).

Hope I helped.

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"Aaaaagnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi... PAM, PAM PA RAM PAM PAM..." (Missa Solemnis)

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Peter, I have read here and there that Schubert's operas are considered 'failures.'
They aren't in the repertory. Have you heard these and do you like them?

They may of course be dramatic 'failures' but have good music nonetheless.

Rutradelusasa has answered this very well! Fierabras in particular has wonderful music - this is another case of fine music being lost due (admittedly) to poor drama.
Particularly outstanding are the arias for Fierabras (no 6b) and Florinda (no.13).

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'Man know thyself'