Mozart Variations and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star

[KyleC]

ummm i just heard this...

Mozart 12 Variations on "Ah,vous dirais-je, Maman," K.265

and it sounds a lot like twinkle twinkle little star. umm could someone tell me when this it was written and when was twinkle twinkle little star. i have looked but have been unable to find anything.

[ruudp]

Originally posted by KyleC:
ummm i just heard this...

Mozart 12 Variations on "Ah,vous dirais-je, Maman," K.265

and it sounds a lot like twinkle twinkle little star. umm could someone tell me when this it was written and when was twinkle twinkle little star. i have looked but have been unable to find anything.

Kyle,
these variotions are on the french tune a me vous dirai mamam...and this tune is better known as indd twinkle twinkle little star..it was thought too be composed around 1778 at first *round the death of mozarts mother* but suggestions are now that it dates from around 1782/3..It's a lovely set of variations...I actually composed myself resently 5 variatons on this theme with help of the pc...fun stuff too do
regards,
Ruud

P.s it's in C major and perhaps on www.sheetmusicarchive.net you may find it for download


------------------
Music is like Blood...vital too ones well-being

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes, "Ah,vous dirais-je, Maman" is an old French folk song, pretty sure it means "Mama, Why do you do me like that?" The value of using the latest catalog numbers shows up here when you know K 300e is that, and ALL the K 300 were written in Paris, presumably to make points with the locals. It is fair to guess that "Twinkle twinkle..: came along quite a bit later. This is analogous to the 4th movement vaiations in Schubert's Trout Quintet, that song became a very popular children's song later too.



------------------
Regards,
Gurn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by KyleC:
ummm i just heard this...

Mozart 12 Variations on "Ah,vous dirais-je, Maman," K.265

and it sounds a lot like twinkle twinkle little star. umm could someone tell me when this it was written and when was twinkle twinkle little star. i have looked but have been unable to find anything.

And it's fun to play!

[Chris]

I love these variations. One of my favorites sets of variations of all time, actually. Probably because it was the first set I ever heard. I was amazed at what Mozart did with that little melody.

[Peter]

No one's mentioned that it is also the tune for Baa baa blacksheep!

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[ruudp]

Originally posted by Peter:
No one's mentioned that it is also the tune for Baa baa blacksheep!

And the dutcg song altijd is kortjake ziek, "Al the days kortjakje is ill"

[KyleC]

I was just amazed when i go to listen to this piece and it sounds like twinkle twinkle little star. of course it is spruced up quite a bit and is far more advanced but the general theme shines through in all of the variations so wonderfully. Chris these are also one of my favorite sets of variations. however i do like the 6 variations on a poem by Goethe that i asked about a little while ago on this site. but that is for four hands so i dont know if it is fair to compare.

[Joy]

..."Baa Baa Black sheep have you any wool?"
Charming indeed! Am I correct in thinking then that "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" the nursery rhyme was written after Mozart's variation so it was Mozart who came up with this very lovely melody and the words added later?

------------------
'Truth and beauty joined'

[Chris]

Originally posted by Joy:
..."Baa Baa Black sheep have you any wool?"
Charming indeed! Am I correct in thinking then that "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" the nursery rhyme was written after Mozart's variation so it was Mozart who came up with this very lovely melody and the words added later?

No, it was a French folksong.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Joy:
..."Baa Baa Black sheep have you any wool?"
Charming indeed! Am I correct in thinking then that "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" the nursery rhyme was written after Mozart's variation so it was Mozart who came up with this very lovely melody and the words added later?

Here are the words of the original French folk-song

Ah ! vous dirais-je, Maman,
Ce qui cause mon tourment
Papa veut que je raisonne,
Comme une grande personne.
Moi je dis que les bonbons
Valent mieux que la raison
(Ah! I would tell you, Mama
what causes my torment.
Papa wants me to reason
Like an adult.
Me, I say that sweets
are better than reason.)

As to Mozart's variations on the tune, recent research now puts the date of composition no earlier than 1780 in Salzburg (making him 24 at the time) and no later than 1782 in Vienna, making him 26. The dating comes from analysis of his handwriting and the type of paper he used.

The slow movement of Haydn's Surprise symphony is also very similar.

As to Twinkle Twinkle little star, you are correct that the words came later, but were probably based on the folk-song rather than Mozart's variations - the joint authors of Twinkle twinkle little star were two sisters called Ann and Jane Taylor. The first publication date was 1806.

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 09-28-2004).]

[King Stephen]

How about the theme from the 2nd movement of Haydn's "Surprise Symphony". I guess this tune got a lot of play.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Peter:
Here are the words of the original French folk-song

Ah ! vous dirais-je, Maman,
Ce qui cause mon tourment
Papa veut que je raisonne,
Comme une grande personne.
Moi je dis que les bonbons
Valent mieux que la raison
(Ah! I would tell you, Mama
what causes my torment.
Papa wants me to reason
Like an adult.
Me, I say that sweets
are better than reason.)

As to Mozart's variations on the tune, recent research now puts the date of composition no earlier than 1780 in Salzburg (making him 24 at the time) and no later than 1782 in Vienna, making him 26. The dating comes from analysis of his handwriting and the type of paper he used.

The slow movement of Haydn's Surprise symphony is also very similar.

As to Twinkle Twinkle little star, you are correct that the words came later, but were probably based on the folk-song rather than Mozart's variations - the joint authors of Twinkle twinkle little star were two sisters called Ann and Jane Taylor. The first publication date was 1806.

Very interesting! Thanks for all the complete information and for clearing that up for me!!




------------------
'Truth and beauty joined'

[KyleC]

as i do not speak french i do not understand what those words mean. i am currently taking spanish in school otherwise i may be able to understand what is written. could someone translate please.

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by KyleC:
as i do not speak french i do not understand what those words mean. i am currently taking spanish in school otherwise i may be able to understand what is written. could someone translate please.

Kyle, look in the paragraph directly below the French! Like I told you at the beginning it means "Mama, why you do me like you do?".



------------------
Regards,
Gurn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~