Beethovens 3rd Piano Concerto

[Beyond Within]

I heard the last 10 seconds on the radio a week ago, and found it extremely powerful. I already had the 3 disk set by Alfred Brendel (covering all 5 concertos), but never listened to them all, out of being bored by the first one. Well I admit, that was pretty dumb of me. I am finding this to be my favorite of the 5, the third movement is especially driving. There are parts that have an amost gypsy sound to it. I really like how explosive the orcheastra is in reaction to the piano. It sounds like violent waves crashing during a storm.

Anyway, what do you people think of this work? If you have any noteworthy references concerning the piece, feel free to post them. Most people here seem full of this type of interesting information.

[Peter]

Preliminary sketches : 1797/1800 completed 1800. Published by Bureau d'Arts et d'industrie, Vienna, 1804. First Performed : 5th April 1803 Theater an Der Wien, Beethoven Soloist. Dedicated to Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia.


This concerto is another example of a deceptively high opus number owing to Beethoven delaying publication. At the first performance which included the 1st Symphony, and the first performances of the Symphony no.2 and the Oratorio 'Christ on the Mount of Olives' (a mammoth programme by any standards !) - Beethoven played the piano part largely from memory as it had not yet been fully written out. Beethoven thought more highly of this concerto than its two predecessors, and it is indeed a superior work. C minor was a key of particular emotional significance for Beethoven and he may have had Mozart's great C minor Concerto in mind ( a work he was known to admire tremendously).

The work opens softly in the strings with a theme of subdued tension which is answered by the woodwind. Within a few bars, Beethoven plunges the theme triumphantly into the relative major, where the music stays for the attractive second subject. The Orchestral exposition ends with three hammerblows on the tonic note C - then the piano enters dramatically with 3 rising C minor scales and then states the main theme in powerful octaves. The piano writing in this concerto is technically more difficult than the earlier concertos although it is more restrained in the development section. The coda is very interesting and effective with the rhythmic use of the timpani and the pianist being kept playing till the very end . In the slow movement, as Beethoven uses a 3/8 time signature, the music looks formidable on the page - as it is covered in large quantities of hemidemisemiquavers and worse ! The piano opens very softly, presenting a beautiful theme which after modulating to the dominant, magically and unexpectedly turns to G major. After the orchestral statement of the theme, Beethoven breaks new ground in the middle section by using the piano as mere accompaniment to a bassoon and flute duet. Having chosen the extroadinary key (for a C minor work) of E major for this movement, in the Rondo Beethoven performs a wonder stroke by enharmonically using the notes of the last E major chord of the slow movement - he emphasises the notes B and Ab (the same on the piano as G#) in his Rondo theme. The mood of this energetic movement contains a certain desperation behind the high spirits. After the main theme, a new joyful theme appears first on the piano and then in the orchestra. The middle section is in Ab and a lovely melody is presented on the clarinet and then taken up by the piano. Beethoven's inventiveness is now in full swing, and he brings the main theme in as a fugue which leads into another of his enharmonic masterstrokes - repeated octave Ab quavers are then turned into G# with E in the bass, changing the Key to E major (same as the slow movement - so he has performed his original trick in reverse !) - surprise modulations continue almost up to the end. For the Coda, Beethoven provides a jubilant and rousing conclusion to the concerto in the major key.



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'Man know thyself'

[Vipercat]

I agree, I LOVE the 3rd piano concerto!!! Thanks Peter for that interesting post. I played the 3rd movement from this concerto 3 years ago and it is definitely one of the most exhilirating pieces ever!! The excitement perpertuates the Rondo, and the middle Ab section is just so beautiful!! Never can get enough of this concerto, I have several CDs with different pianists playing it.

The 4th is my own particular favourite, though I love all five.

[v russo]

I have mentioned here before that the 3rd concerto is my favorite as well. I love the power and theme of the opening movement, the heart felt beauty of the 2nd and the sheer dynamicism of the 3rd! Beethovens early works differ from his middle and later works. It is always worthwhile to examine all of this artists repetory.

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v russo

[This message has been edited by v russo (edited 08-08-2004).]

[Joy]

It's also one of my favourites of the 5. Dynamic, beautiful and the ending of the last movement so powerful! One of my favourite endings of a musical piece. I know what you mean, Beyond, and I have to agree with everyone here on their perspective of the third, I'll just say "ditto."

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Sorrano]

In the past few weeks I've been working on the piano part to the first movement and am always amazed at the power and beauty that such simplicity evokes. The piano part (minus the cadenza) is not very hard except maybe in a couple of spots (first movement only).

This concerto has literally haunted me for years; when I first heard it I had the sensation that I was already familiar with it and to this day I cannot listen to it without some of that sensation of familiarity with it. Rather spooky.

[v russo]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
In the past few weeks I've been working on the piano part to the first movement and am always amazed at the power and beauty that such simplicity evokes. The piano part (minus the cadenza) is not very hard except maybe in a couple of spots (first movement only).

This concerto has literally haunted me for years; when I first heard it I had the sensation that I was already familiar with it and to this day I cannot listen to it without some of that sensation of familiarity with it. Rather spooky.

very cool!

[urtextmeister]

Peter,

Very perceptive remarks. Especially about the E major/c minor relationship. I'm going to examine that more closely.

Sorrano,

Are those descending sequences of triads in first inversion bothering you? Those passages can be make sweat a bit.

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by urtextmeister:
Peter,

Very perceptive remarks. Especially about the E major/c minor relationship. I'm going to examine that more closely.

Sorrano,

Are those descending sequences of triads in first inversion bothering you? Those passages can be make sweat a bit.

And that is where patience in practice will pay off. I get hung up on the section just prior, as well, where the left hand has a triplets pattern. The pattern, once it is established in the mind is not difficult, but getting it set in my mind is. But the power of these passages and where they lead to is astounding.

[Geratlas]

Originally posted by Peter:
Preliminary sketches : 1797/1800 completed 1800. Published by Bureau d'Arts et d'industrie, Vienna, 1804. First Performed : 5th April 1803 Theater an Der Wien, Beethoven Soloist. Dedicated to Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia. [...]

Peter, one really ought to credit you on this, as I see it, splendid account. I felt it rewarding to read. -
As for the dates quoted above, I felt enlighted that this gorgeous concerto had been sketched as early as 1797. But just the same perplexed by the date of completion being 1800. I am much aware that our revered composer Herr Beethoven worked intensively on the work during the 1800 summer: sketching/drafting and even starting on a full score. But - Forgive me, if I seem only too meticulous, here, - I haven't found any indication(bad-word-of-choice,perhaps) / evidence for such an early completion date of op.37. My meagre sources quite firmly places its completion to the year 1803, when it was first performed. Simply, this makes me wonder on what grounds you are entitled to place it 3 years earlier. Is there evidence? Strong indication(s)? And besides, what contradicts the completion to have even been 1801 or 1802.

Answers hoped for - not expected - from G. in reverence ~

[Peter]

Originally posted by Geratlas:
Peter, one really ought to credit you on this, as I see it, splendid account. I felt it rewarding to read. -
As for the dates quoted above, I felt enlighted that this gorgeous concerto had been sketched as early as 1797. But just the same perplexed by the date of completion being 1800. I am much aware that our revered composer Herr Beethoven worked intensively on the work during the 1800 summer: sketching/drafting and even starting on a full score. But - Forgive me, if I seem only too meticulous, here, - I haven't found any indication(bad-word-of-choice,perhaps) / evidence for such an early completion date of op.37. My meagre sources quite firmly places its completion to the year 1803, when it was first performed. Simply, this makes me wonder on what grounds you are entitled to place it 3 years earlier. Is there evidence? Strong indication(s)? And besides, what contradicts the completion to have even been 1801 or 1802.

Answers hoped for - not expected - from G. in reverence ~

The autograph score is dated 1800 - the score which was missing from the 1940's until its rediscovery in Poland in 1977 has incomplete piano solo, so technically your completion date of 1803 which I agree most sources quote, could be correct, though it appears that most of the work may have been done in 1800. Interesting point and I'll try and find out some more.

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'Man know thyself'



[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 08-10-2004).]

[Levi]

YES, thank you! The 3rd piano concerto was one of the very pieces that I fell in love with (except I find the first movement the greatest!) but it was the very first piece of Beethoven's that is not famous that I came to adore. For years it was my all time favourite piece, now only recently challenged by the 7th symphony (IV) and the Choral Fantasy (III).
By the way I'm new here and I can't believe I've never discovered this before! I have alllways regarded Beethoven as way above the rest, I will spend 2 hours arguing with my music mates that he is better than Mozart.

Originally posted by Peter:
Preliminary sketches : 1797/1800 completed 1800. Published by Bureau d'Arts et d'industrie, Vienna, 1804. First Performed : 5th April 1803 Theater an Der Wien, Beethoven Soloist. Dedicated to Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia.


This concerto is another example of a deceptively high opus number owing to Beethoven delaying publication. At the first performance which included the 1st Symphony, and the first performances of the Symphony no.2 and the Oratorio 'Christ on the Mount of Olives' (a mammoth programme by any standards !) - Beethoven played the piano part largely from memory as it had not yet been fully written out. Beethoven thought more highly of this concerto than its two predecessors, and it is indeed a superior work. C minor was a key of particular emotional significance for Beethoven and he may have had Mozart's great C minor Concerto in mind ( a work he was known to admire tremendously).

The work opens softly in the strings with a theme of subdued tension which is answered by the woodwind. Within a few bars, Beethoven plunges the theme triumphantly into the relative major, where the music stays for the attractive second subject. The Orchestral exposition ends with three hammerblows on the tonic note C - then the piano enters dramatically with 3 rising C minor scales and then states the main theme in powerful octaves. The piano writing in this concerto is technically more difficult than the earlier concertos although it is more restrained in the development section. The coda is very interesting and effective with the rhythmic use of the timpani and the pianist being kept playing till the very end . In the slow movement, as Beethoven uses a 3/8 time signature, the music looks formidable on the page - as it is covered in large quantities of hemidemisemiquavers and worse ! The piano opens very softly, presenting a beautiful theme which after modulating to the dominant, magically and unexpectedly turns to G major. After the orchestral statement of the theme, Beethoven breaks new ground in the middle section by using the piano as mere accompaniment to a bassoon and flute duet. Having chosen the extroadinary key (for a C minor work) of E major for this movement, in the Rondo Beethoven performs a wonder stroke by enharmonically using the notes of the last E major chord of the slow movement - he emphasises the notes B and Ab (the same on the piano as G#) in his Rondo theme. The mood of this energetic movement contains a certain desperation behind the high spirits. After the main theme, a new joyful theme appears first on the piano and then in the orchestra. The middle section is in Ab and a lovely melody is presented on the clarinet and then taken up by the piano. Beethoven's inventiveness is now in full swing, and he brings the main theme in as a fugue which leads into another of his enharmonic masterstrokes - repeated octave Ab quavers are then turned into G# with E in the bass, changing the Key to E major (same as the slow movement - so he has performed his original trick in reverse !) - surprise modulations continue almost up to the end. For the Coda, Beethoven provides a jubilant and rousing conclusion to the concerto in the major key.

[Geratlas]

Originally posted by Peter:
The autograph score is dated 1800 - the score which was missing from the 1940's until its rediscovery in Poland in 1977 has incomplete piano solo, so technically your completion date of 1803 which I agree most sources quote, could be correct, though it appears that most of the work may have been done in 1800. Interesting point and I'll try and find out some more.

Most thankful for your reply, Peter. It pleased me very much. Meantime I went through some books on this myself. Primarily I am indebted to the CBE, although I have come to realise it is not always to be trusted. Date given in its work register is "circa 1800 to 1803". I looked it up in the accompanying booklet where it states: "It is not certain precisely when the work was written. The outside limits are the years 1796 -1804. [...] Further complications are raised by the autograph score, which shows three different layers of compositional activity. And although the score is dated 1803, it is not clear whether this represents an initial or terminal date: the earliest layer might predate 1800." It continues: "Not even the first performance, on 5 April 1803 at the Theater an der Wien, can betaken as the date by which the concerto as we know it was completely ready." As I seek an approximate date of this work's completion this latter quote are of minor interest, as the concerto at any rate was sufficiently conceived by the premiere performance as to be seen as complete (though not necessarily finished).
It seems clear enough to me, that the autograph score mentioned here is identic to the one referred by you. If so, as I see things, the date upon this score must have been interpreted both as '1800' as well as '1803'. This would surely explain: "circa 1800 to 1803", don't you agree? (Alternatively there are two different date inscriptions. But this is not made clear/explicit.)
I am naturally interested if you should come across further information, and what all this may say You, Peter. / From Humble Bumble-B. (read:Bookworm) in Appreciation.