Do all B.'s symphonies have names besides numbers.

[plp]

What are the names of all that do have designations other than opus numbers? Do you have your own thoughts on how you would refer to them? I am too much of a novice to contribute my own suggestions, but I do love any thatI am familiar with.
PLP

[Peter]

Only the Eroica (3), Pastoral (6) & ChoraL (9)are named. I had this discussion a while back with a friend who thought it silly that musical compositions were all referred to by the standard category names of sonata, symphony etc instead of more imaginative titles - I suppose he has a point, after all referring to Botticelli's Primavera as Canvas 62 or Shakespeare's Othello as Tragedy 14 would be rather souless.



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'Man know thyself'

[KyleC]

there are names for indiviual pieces. some of the names are Appassionata, HammerKlavier, Fur Elise. there are many others that have names also. the Opus number, op, is given to every piece it is used to keep track of the number of pieces a composer has written. for example the composer's first piece will be given Op. 1 and his 32nd will be given Op. 32. i beleive.

[ruudp]

Originally posted by KyleC:
the Opus number, op, is given to every piece it is used to keep track of the number of pieces a composer has written. for example the composer's first piece will be given Op. 1 and his 32nd will be given Op. 32. i beleive.

KyleC..
You were right about the names and stuff but it isn't entirely right that op.1 is the first piece and op.... the last.
Beethoven for instance wrote pieces FAR before his first opus number. the Kürfursten sonaten WoO 47 for instance.
Also the opus numbers are mainly adressed upon advertisers *right??* his pianoconcerto op.19 *the 2nd* was actually written before op.15 *the so-called 1st*. these 2 are again preceeded by a concerto in E flat major which he didn't finish in his teen years the WoO.4

As you see opus numbering is quite a difficult field, and I wouldn't want to be responsible for any of the nummerings of works from al the composers..
I hope this info was right..If not I'm sure some of the other forum members will save me from total embarrassement by helping me out..Right??
Regards,
Ruud

[Rod]

Originally posted by ruudp:
KyleC..
You were right about the names and stuff but it isn't entirely right that op.1 is the first piece and op.... the last.
Beethoven for instance wrote pieces FAR before his first opus number. the Kürfursten sonaten WoO 47 for instance.
Also the opus numbers are mainly adressed upon advertisers *right??* his pianoconcerto op.19 *the 2nd* was actually written before op.15 *the so-called 1st*. these 2 are again preceeded by a concerto in E flat major which he didn't finish in his teen years the WoO.4

As you see opus numbering is quite a difficult field, and I wouldn't want to be responsible for any of the nummerings of works from al the composers..
I hope this info was right..If not I'm sure some of the other forum members will save me from total embarrassement by helping me out..Right??
Regards,
Ruud

By and large you are right, though in Beethoven's time, for a few of the opus works, there was some confusion (or lack of consistancy) amongst the music publishers about which piece had which opus number. Only over time did the accepted opus sequence be finalised.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by KyleC:
there are names for indiviual pieces. some of the names are Appassionata, HammerKlavier, Fur Elise. there are many others that have names also.

Yes but the original question was in relation to the symphonies!


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'Man know thyself'

[Frederica]

We usually refer to the 5th symphony as "Schicksalssymphonie" (symphony of fate), but maybe this is just an "unofficial" designation and just used with German speakers (or even just in Austria??).

Originally posted by plp:
What are the names of all that do have designations other than opus numbers? Do you have your own thoughts on how you would refer to them? I am too much of a novice to contribute my own suggestions, but I do love any thatI am familiar with.
PLP

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Peter:
Only the Eroica (3), Pastoral (6) & ChoraL (9)are named. I had this discussion a while back with a friend who thought it silly that musical compositions were all referred to by the standard category names of sonata, symphony etc instead of more imaginative titles - I suppose he has a point, after all referring to Botticelli's Primavera as Canvas 62 or Shakespeare's Othello as Tragedy 14 would be rather souless.

But then, wouldn't putting names to symphonic works imply a program to the work?

[ruudp]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
But then, wouldn't putting names to symphonic works imply a program to the work?

perhaps,
but if you look at mozart symphonies like the haffner, the prager and the linzer then you'll see that there's no programme behind these names, they're just used as ways to differentiate the numerous symphonies, J haydn had also symphonies with nicknames, the london symfonies the miracle, the bear, the hen and so on and so on..I'd say names are just used to help people understand which work it is..when I ask people wether the know the 6th or 9th from beethoven they all shrug their shoulders in asking manners, should I use the names however most of them look at you with a face like: ow did ya mean THAT one....

Regards,
Ruud

[Rod]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
But then, wouldn't putting names to symphonic works imply a program to the work?

Quite so, the less 'named' works the better.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Quite so, the less 'named' works the better.

Well we have the Razumovsky quartets, the Archduke trio, the Waldstein sonata etc... what's wrong with that? No program implied there!

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'Man know thyself'

[AndrewMyers]

I don't mind names like Razumovsky and Brandenburg or whatever, but I don't like the way many Haydn symphonies are given 'novelty' nicknames('Clock,' 'Surprise,' 'Hen' etc. I do find this kind of nickname can get in the way a bit, focusing attention on one fairly insignificant detail.

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, I agree with the "anti's". I have no problem with Op 2 #3, and it has a name anyway, it is Piano Sonata #3. So what's the problem?


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Regards,
Gurn
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That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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[Pastorali]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
Well, I agree with the "anti's". I have no problem with Op 2 #3, and it has a name anyway, it is Piano Sonata #3. So what's the problem?

Right Gurn. And if one loves a great work, such a short number says more than the most endless title...
18, 61, 111, 123, 125... Numbers can be sexy!

[plp]

Such a simple question, but such knowledgeable responses and opinions. But "simple questions-simple minds", so to pursue the original question - as far as the ones with names, I seem to remember hearing one of the later symphonies referred to as the Dance Symphony. Does this ring a bell for anyone.

Great Forum.