Authentic page mp3s - Piano sonatas Op.49

[Peter]

Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

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'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

Thanks for sharing these, Rod. I love these pieces, and used to play them all the time.

The movement from No. 1 seemed extremely fast to me. I'd say it was thirty seconds to a minute too short because of a rushed tempo. The movement from number two was perhaps a little fast, but not much. Certainly not as much as No. 1. Sometimes I get the feeling pianists play these things so fast simply because they can.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
Thanks for sharing these, Rod. I love these pieces, and used to play them all the time.

The movement from No. 1 seemed extremely fast to me. I'd say it was thirty seconds to a minute too short because of a rushed tempo. The movement from number two was perhaps a little fast, but not much. Certainly not as much as No. 1. Sometimes I get the feeling pianists play these things so fast simply because they can.

The mp3 from No1 sounds perfectly paced to me, that's why I used the track. That from number two could perhaps have a little more life to it for my taste, but it is ok.

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 07-24-2004).]

[Ahmad]

As a beginner, I plan to learn Op.48 np.2 starting with the 2nd movement...Any advice pianists and piano teachers here can give..?
Thanks in advance..

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
The mp3 from No1 sounds perfectly paced to me, that's why I used the track. That from number two could perhaps have a little more life to it for my taste, but it is ok.

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 07-24-2004).]

Rod, sometimes I think you have pure caffeine running through your veins!

[Peter]

Originally posted by Ahmad:
As a beginner, I plan to learn Op.48 np.2 starting with the 2nd movement...Any advice pianists and piano teachers here can give..?
Thanks in advance..

Listen to good recordings such as the one presented here which I enjoyed very much, interesting that the instrument is a copy, not a reconditioning!

Also make sure you don't get your Opus numbers confused, this is Op.49 not 48!


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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 07-25-2004).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
The mp3 from No1 sounds perfectly paced to me, that's why I used the track. That from number two could perhaps have a little more life to it for my taste, but it is ok.

I think the tempo is just right for no.2, it is after all meant to to be Tempo di menuetto, not Scherzo!

This Walter copy sounds wonderful, perfectly in tune, no horrible extraneous sounds that the reconditioned fortes have, infinitely superior and I'm sure far more more authentic.

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'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

And what do you think about No. 1, Peter?

[Andrea]

Thanks again Rod for these pieces. I especially love the minuette from the Sonata No. 2. I kept playing it over and over. I have heard this piece before but I can't remember where. I think that it was played in one of the Jane Austin films I love to watch on BBCPrime.

Found this bit on these two sonatas in my Beethoven Bicentennial Edition Book, 1770-1970:

The two Sonatas Op. 49 Nos. 1 and 2 (G minor and G major) do not belong chronologically in the position among Beethoven's Sonatas indicated by their opus number; they were written in 1797-8 and in 1796, they bear no dedication, and were probably intended for teaching purposes, like the duet Sonata Op. 6. Sketches for the first movement of Op.49 No.1 are mixed with others for the Rondo of the "Pathetique". Beethoven had already published the theme of the second movement of Op. 49 No. 2 as the third movement of the Septet Op. 20. The sketches show that it was taken over from the Sonata into the Septet, not vice versa. These Sonatas were published in 1805 by the "Bureau des Arts et d'Industrie", Vienna.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I think the tempo is just right for no.2, it is after all meant to to be Tempo di menuetto, not Scherzo!

This Walter copy sounds wonderful, perfectly in tune, no horrible extraneous sounds that the reconditioned fortes have, infinitely superior and I'm sure far more more authentic.

I was not strictly talking about the tempo per se, but rather a litte more dynamism in the phrasing.

I have never denied that a good fortepiano copy is most likely perferable to an imperfect restoration, but sometimes the restorations, even if imperfect, have a certain flavour to the sound that one rarely hears on the copies - whether this is due to the passage of time or the manner of construction of the originals, I can't say for certain. But I am more concerned with imperfections in the performance than in the fortepiano.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chris:
And what do you think about No. 1, Peter?

I agree it is a little on the fast side, after all it is only marked allegro and Tovey considered at a later date, Beethoven would have marked this movement allegretto -I think some of the charm is lost at the faster pace.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I agree it is a little on the fast side, after all it is only marked allegro and Tovey considered at a later date, Beethoven would have marked this movement allegretto -I think some of the charm is lost at the faster pace.

A Beethoven allegro IS fast, certainly faster than the moderato we are so often subjected to in performance. I don't know what evidence Tovey based his assertion on, but considering it contradicts my own position...it must be incorrect.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Gurn Blanston]

I like these tempi too. I suppose anything can sound "charming" when played at a certain tempo, but I am wondering if everything is supposed to sound charming? And this fortepiano is a peach, too. Thanks Rod.


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Regards,
Gurn
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That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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[Peter]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
I like these tempi too. I suppose anything can sound "charming" when played at a certain tempo, but I am wondering if everything is supposed to sound charming? And this fortepiano is a peach, too. Thanks Rod.

No, obviously not, but what Tovey was getting at was that this Rondo has the qualities of an allegretto - that is quite lively but also playful, humorous.
Rod asserts that allegro means fast in Beethoven, well yes (and not just Beethoven) but what does fast mean? The allegro markings on a metronome range from 120-168. Is a Beethoven allegro marking of 1795 the same as for all pieces he marked allegro - the point is that the character of the piece determines the tempo, rather than just the word allegro which is pretty much open to interpretation!


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'Man know thyself'

[Gurn Blanston]

Peter,
As I understand, allegro means "moving right along", to paraphrase the Italian. But in Vienna in the late 18th/early 19th it had a quite specific meaning which every musician knew. It is unfortunate that we can't relate it to a specific metronome setting like 76 or whatever, but its meaning and speed were so well known that in many opening movements the composer didn't even bother writing in the word "allegro", it was a given that if there was nothing written it was allegro, and exactly how fast it would be. As it is, we can only guess and choose to like or dislike something based on our own particular and peculiar tastes. Since I don't like my music to hang about humming to itself, then a brisk allegro is the right thing for me. And there is a certain charm in brisk, too!


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Regards,
Gurn
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That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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