Live Concerts

[King Stephen]

This past Sunday my wife and I attended a concert at Tangelwood. The performing orchestra was the Orchestra of St. Lukes conducted by Donald Runnicles. The Orch. of St. Lukes is a chamber orch. of about 47 musicians. The soloist in the Brahms vioin concert was Joshua Bell. The program got of on the right foot with a rousing performance of Rossini's The Italien in Algiers overture.
It was then followed by the Brahms concerto.
Joshua Bell plays well but the tempi in the first movement was short of being an andante . Slower than any performace of the 1st movement I have ever heard. To tell you how slow, we counted three people sleeping and the gentleman next to my wife was play a hand held electronic game and two more reading and it wasn't their programs they were reading. You could feel the bordom permeating through the audience as the movement moved on. The 2nd and 3rd movements were closer to main stream performances. Of course at the end of the concero everybody cheered like it was either the greastest thing they had ever heard or they were glad it was over. By this time I was hot, irritated, and bummed out. Thank goodness for intermissions... Back to the concert and Beethoven's Symphony No.7 in A Major Op.92.
First movement just ok, the 2nd movement a notch above the average, the 3rd movement very well done , truly the apotheosis of the dance. The finale movement was played at a pace that makes Kleiber and Zimmer's performances seem slow. It was like a run away train. People in the orchestra's woodwind and brass sections were gasping for air. All in all it was an experience just being there. After all that is said and done, my wife and I did have a great day, and I'll tell you folks there is something grand to be said about CD'S

[This message has been edited by King Stephen (edited 07-20-2004).]

[This message has been edited by King Stephen (edited 07-20-2004).]

[Gurn Blanston]

King,
It sounds as though a "tempo blending" between the 2 B's was in order Seriously though, when a concerto goes awry like that, say they just messed up and started out too slow, can it be corrected during performance, or must the movement be pretty much completed at that tempo? And if the soloist realized it, is he able to pick up the pace during his section and sort of give them the spur? I am curious whether and how a correction could be made "on the fly".


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Regards,
Gurn
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That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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[This message has been edited by Gurn Blanston (edited 07-20-2004).]

[King Stephen]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
King,
It sounds as though a "tempo blending" between the 2 B's was in order Seriously though, when a concerto goes awry like that, say they just messed up and started out too slow, can it be corrected during performance, or must the movement be pretty much completed at that tempo? And if the soloist realized it, is he able to pick up the pace during his section and sort of give them the spur? I am curious whether and how a correction could be made "on the fly".

Gurn, I think for the most part the Tempi has already been established by the conductor and the soloist during their rehearsals.
I once attended a concert at Boston's Symphony Hall. The Royal Philharmonic under the baton of Yehudi Menuhin was performing Tchaikovsky's 5th Symphony. When the music was 2 or 3 minutes into the first movement Menuhin stopped the Orchestra. Maybe the orchestra was suffering from jet lag. He then started over at a tempo that was faster. A conductor has suttle ways of picking up or slowing down the beat of the music without it being noticed by most of the audience.
I am sure there were people at the Tanglewood concert that would say it was one of the best performances they ever heard. But then again we are not like the Europeans, we tend to applaud and rave over anything that is performed. There is an old story about a tenor who was performing in Italy. After his aria the applause was tremendous, to the point of an encore. This went on four or five times until the tenor raising his hands said to the audience "Please, no more, Please," where by a little old man way back in the hall yelled to the tenor, " You are going to keep singing until you get it right."
I guess the Europeans know their music.

[Joy]

Stephen, I'm curious about the last movement of the 7th. You said they just flew through it. Did you like it at a faster tempo or do you prefer it slowed down a bit. I know sometimes I hear some music played much faster than I would like. For instance recently I heard Beethoven's 5th and they played the first movement way too fast. I prefer it drawn out a bit so you can enjoy it more, it was over like in 5 or 6 minutes. Then the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th movement was played much more traditionally and that was all right. I don't know why he sped up the first movement so much.

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[King Stephen]

Originally posted by Joy:
Stephen, I'm curious about the last movement of the 7th. You said they just flew through it. Did you like it at a faster tempo or do you prefer it slowed down a bit. I know sometimes I hear some music played much faster than I would like. For instance recently I heard Beethoven's 5th and they played the first movement way too fast. I prefer it drawn out a bit so you can enjoy it more, it was over like in 5 or 6 minutes. Then the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th movement was played much more traditionally and that was all right. I don't know why he sped up the first movement so much.

Hi Joy, The tempo was the fastest I have ever heard and it was not to my liking. I think tempi is something we get used to so that when there is a drastic change we tend to recoil and kind of scratch our heads. I am from the school that wants to hear a composers music performed as close to what the composer intended it to be. I don't appreciate a conductor saying the composer really meant this or that. Leonard Bernstein ,a few years before his death, recorded the Elgar Enigma Variations. The variation called "Nimrod" was done so slow that the theme could not be identified. On the other hand when a work is being performed a break neck speed ,and it is not called for, it sounds like the music is cascading endlessly. I like my music "Neat."

[heidi]

Originally posted by King Stephen:
This past Sunday my wife and I attended a concert at Tangelwood. The performing orchestra was the Orchestra of St. Lukes conducted by Donald Runnicles. The Orch. of St. Lukes is a chamber orch. of about 47 musicians. The soloist in the Brahms vioin concert was Joshua Bell. The program got of on the right foot with a rousing performance of Rossini's The Italien in Algiers overture.
It was then followed by the Brahms concerto.
Joshua Bell plays well but the tempi in the first movement was short of being an andante . Slower than any performace of the 1st movement I have ever heard. To tell you how slow, we counted three people sleeping and the gentleman next to my wife was play a hand held electronic game and two more reading and it wasn't their programs they were reading. You could feel the bordom permeating through the audience as the movement moved on. The 2nd and 3rd movements were closer to main stream performances. Of course at the end of the concero everybody cheered like it was either the greastest thing they had ever heard or they were glad it was over. By this time I was hot, irritated, and bummed out. Thank goodness for intermissions... Back to the concert and Beethoven's Symphony No.7 in A Major Op.92.
First movement just ok, the 2nd movement a notch above the average, the 3rd movement very well done , truly the apotheosis of the dance. The finale movement was played at a pace that makes Kleiber and Zimmer's performances seem slow. It was like a run away train. People in the orchestra's woodwind and brass sections were gasping for air. All in all it was an experience just being there. After all that is said and done, my wife and I did have a great day, and I'll tell you folks there is something grand to be said about CD'S

[This message has been edited by King Stephen (edited 07-20-2004).]

[This message has been edited by King Stephen (edited 07-20-2004).]

I'm attending a concert at the end of this month at Tanglewood. It's Beethoven's 9th Symphony preformed by the Boston Symphony Orchestra. I have never been to Tanglewood (I live in Michigan)and am very much looking forward to this. This will be my third time hearing this great piece live. Do you have any suggestions of things that might be of interest while I am there, or maybe a great restaurant? This concert falls on my birthday and I am giving myself a big treat.

Thanks.

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by heidi:
I'm attending a concert at the end of this month at Tanglewood. It's Beethoven's 9th Symphony preformed by the Boston Symphony Orchestra. I have never been to Tanglewood (I live in Michigan)and am very much looking forward to this. This will be my third time hearing this great piece live. Do you have any suggestions of things that might be of interest while I am there, or maybe a great restaurant? This concert falls on my birthday and I am giving myself a big treat.

Thanks.

I can't think of a better birthday treat! Enjoy!

[urtextmeister]

King,

I'm sorry you had a bad concert experience, but you are not implying that you want to hole up and listen to nothing but CDs for the rest of your life. Are you?

I can think of many moments in a recital hall or concert hall when everything comes together and magic happens. I don't really have such distinct memories about recorded music. Maybe it is the ephermeral quality of a concert that makes it special.

Of course, I have had bad concert experiences. Either because of the performance or because I am not in the mood to sit quietly for an hour and half. Par for the course, I suppose.

I think most people probably did think that was a great performance of the Brahms because most people had probably never heard it before. That was the definitive performance in their minds.

Gurn,

I think King is absolutely right. The reason for a rehearsal with a pro orchestra and soloist is basically to set tempos. However, between rehearsal and performance, that tempo can migrate south without anyone really noticing until it is too late. I think the way a soloist behaves with orchestra varies. Some will take their own tempo and if the orchestra lags a beat behind, too bad for them. Others, especially inexperienced ones, are more swayed by the orchestra. Likewise some conductors are very sensitive to the soloist and will do much to accomodate them and others have a dogged determination to follow their own musical vision, soloist be damned.

I would like to think that Joshua Bell was not at fault here. I think he is a consumate artist.

I have never heard of a conductor stopping a performance because of anything other than a total trainwreck. And sometimes they keep going even with that. That thing with Menuhin sounds like an open rehearsal rather than a performance. If the orchestra is dragging, speed them up. That's your job.

Heidi,

Have fun at Tanglewood.

---Advertisement---
Have you ever been to the Interlochen Arts Festival in your own state of Michigan. What excellent programs they have there.
---end of Advertisement---

Sorry. I had to get that in.

[heidi]

Originally posted by urtextmeister:
King,

Have fun at Tanglewood.

---Advertisement---
Have you ever been to the Interlochen Arts Festival in your own state of Michigan. What excellent programs they have there.
---end of Advertisement---

Sorry. I had to get that in.

Sorry to say I haven't been to Interlochen. I live about 3-1/2 south of it down Lake Michigan. I have heard several preformances from there. My daughter attends a camp called 'Blue Lakes Fine Arts Camp' not to far from Interlochen that is for younger musicians (she plays the flute).

Thanks and I'm sure I will have a good time at Tangelwood.