Performance of Beethoven's Piano Concerto #1!

[Joy]

Tonight on public radio will be a performance of the PC#1. Here's what they have to say about it. "In 1795, Beethoven was just a talented 24 year old trying to find his own musical voice and living very much in the shadow of Mozart. His first two piano concertos wound up in some ways sounding more like Mozart than like the fiery mature composer Beethoven would become two or three decades later. Tonight's performance of the Piano Concerto no. 1 from Saarbrucken, Germany will be played by the 32-year-old Russian pianist Evegeny Kissin is at the piano Gunther Herbig conducts the Saarbrucken Radio Symphony". What do you all think about this assessment and about Evegeny Kissin?


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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Gurn Blanston]

Joy,
It sounds fair to me. To be compared to Mozart is actually a compliment for someone's first (second, really)concerto. As for Kissin, I haven't heard him play B, but I have heard him otherwise and he was pretty darn good. I reckon he can handle it. I would like to hear this, maybe it will work out for me, if they aren't playing Yanni on my local


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Regards,
Gurn
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That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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[Rod]

Originally posted by Joy:
Tonight on public radio will be a performance of the PC#1. Here's what they have to say about it. "In 1795, Beethoven was just a talented 24 year old trying to find his own musical voice and living very much in the shadow of Mozart. His first two piano concertos wound up in some ways sounding more like Mozart than like the fiery mature composer Beethoven would become two or three decades later. Tonight's performance of the Piano Concerto no. 1 from Saarbrucken, Germany will be played by the 32-year-old Russian pianist Evegeny Kissin is at the piano Gunther Herbig conducts the Saarbrucken Radio Symphony". What do you all think about this assessment and about Evegeny Kissin?

I think this idea of early Beethoven sounding like Mozart is grossly overplayed. I think we can hear quite a lot of Beethoven in No1.

I don't know anything about Kissin (the performer, not the act!)

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Joy]

Gurn, the show is on at 5:00-7:00pm tonight AZ time. I think you are an hour ahead? Anyway here is a couple of sites that may help you listen in. One is in Texas and the other is just a live stream of the radio station KBaq.
http://www.npr.org/wheretohear/index...4&selStates=TX
http://kbaq.rio.maricopa.edu/listen/ontheweb/

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Joy]

Originally posted by Rod:
I think this idea of early Beethoven sounding like Mozart is grossly overplayed. I think we can hear quite a lot of Beethoven in No1.

I don't know anything about Kissin (the performer, not the act!)

I have to agree with you, Rod. The Piano Concerto #1 sounds very Beethovian to me too!


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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Gurn Blanston]

That's only because you already know going in that it IS Beethoven. If it was an entirely new piece of music to you, but you were familiar with late Mozart, you would think "Hmmm, that sounds kinda like late Mozart".


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Regards,
Gurn
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That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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[This message has been edited by Gurn Blanston (edited 07-23-2004).]

[ruudp]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
That's only because you already know going in that it IS Beethoven. If it was an entirely new piece of music to you, but you were familiar with late Mozart, you would think "Hmmm, that sounds kinda like late Mozart".

hmmm doest that also apply to the 3th movement...Also the 2nd pianoconcerto in B flat major's 3th movement doesen't sound like mozart aswell....the syncopated rythm is VERY new I'd say.
regards,
Ruud

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by ruudp:
hmmm doest that also apply to the 3th movement...Also the 2nd pianoconcerto in B flat major's 3th movement doesen't sound like mozart aswell....the syncopated rythm is VERY new I'd say.
regards,
Ruud

You stole the words right out of my pen! Indeed, the last movements of these two concerti have a different sound than Mozart (perhaps closer to the playful Haydn) and In respect to what was to come is very Beethovenian. Although, compared to the piano sonatas that had been written both concerti are conservative.

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, geez, I didn't say he quoted Mozart, for gosh sakes, I said it sounded like Mozart stylistically. And yes, Mozart used syncopation, and pretty near every other little trick in the "book". Perhaps you could say like Haydn, but certainly not like his concerti, I wouldn't say, but like perhaps his late symphonies.


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Regards,
Gurn
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That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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[Peter]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
Well, geez, I didn't say he quoted Mozart, for gosh sakes, I said it sounded like Mozart stylistically.

I'd say the first 2 concertos (not counting the early WoO4) also owe much to Haydn and Cramer. The virtuoso piano writing of Mozart's Coronation concerto influenced No.1, and K.595 may have served as a model for no.2, though Haydnesque touches abound in this earlier work.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
That's only because you already know going in that it IS Beethoven. If it was an entirely new piece of music to you, but you were familiar with late Mozart, you would think "Hmmm, that sounds kinda like late Mozart".

But I've already heard enough Mozart to know the difference! A lot of contemporary critics thought Beethoven's music was quite different when it was new, to put it mildly!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 07-24-2004).]

[urtextmeister]

Speaking in non-musical terms, I have always felt that there is an urgency, an eagerness, almost a brash "in yo face!" quality about this concerto that contrasts a bit with balanced sophistication of Mozart's works in the same genre.
I believe it was Ruud who pointed out the syncopation in reference to concerto #2. There are some of those unexpected sforzandi in the first concerto which, if brought out vigorously, are quite striking--who let the bull in the china shop?

What was it with Beethoven and these sforzandi? They are here but he seemed even more obsessed with them in the middle period. (Perhaps another topic...)

There is a huge difference between concertos 1-3 and 4-5. The early concertos do seem like they follow the tradition of Mozart, but I am trying to imagine the atmosphere in Vienna in 1795. The Mozart concerti must have made a huge impact and were still being played (I have read that Beethoven himself may have performed the d minor that same year). Along with the 24-year-old's thoughts of greatness and individuality must have been the thought: "Gee. I hope they like me."

Does anyone know the history of the performance of the Mozart concerti after WAM's death? Were they primarily a vehicle for Mozart himself? Did they fade after their premiere or were they played often by pianists of the time.

[AndrewMyers]

I don't think the first 2 or even 3 piano concertos by Beethoven sound Mozartian at all, in that I simply don't think they are as good as the best of Mozart's late concertos.

Don't get me wrong - I love the Beethoven piano concertos! Energetic, earthy, lively, with great variety of material.

But just compare Beethoven's no 3 with Mozart's no 24 in the same key - which Beethoven adored and wrote cadenzas for. I really feel that the Mozart is a much more sophisticated piece, with the orchestra and piano integrated to a greater extent than in the Beethoven. Just listen to the string and woodwind writing!

The other side of this coin is of course that I do think even in these early works Beethoven does sound like Beethoven, not like a copy of Mozart, even though he hadn't yet reached the heights of his predecessor.

You have to wait for the piano concertos no 4 and 5 for the true masterpieces IMHO!

Just my views.

[Sorrano]

Perhaps in spirit the 1st concerto has similarities with the Mozart #25. Both first movements are majestic and grand while the finales are playful and energetic (not to mention that they are in the same key). With Beethoven there is a sense of urgency in his music that is not present in most other composers' works.

[Tony John Hearne]

I never paid much attention to the Maestro's one and two piano concerti, being simply addicted to 4 and 5 in particular, until happening across in my local library a recording on CD (doubtless now, and goodness knows why, deleted) by the perhaps incomporable Glenn Gould with Sir Ernest Rutherford conducting the Toronto Symphony in (I think the early 50's) Recorded live as perhaps most of the greatest recordings are. It really awoke me to no 1 in particular which is a wonderful piece, particularly the slow movment

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Love from London