late start = bad?

[KyleC]

i was just wondering in the musical field is a late start, like 14, bad? i have noticed that many of the fine musicians and composers, such as beethoven, all started when they were 5 or 6 and they all have a family of musicians. my family is not very musical and i started at age 14. am i doomed?

[This message has been edited by KyleC (edited 07-13-2004).]

[Peter]

No you are not doomed! Of course ideally it is best to start young, around 7 years. The most important thing is not to be impatient or over-practice! Chopin advised against more than 3 hours for his most advanced pupils. I am a little worried at hearing the number of people here who start playing the Pathetique after 1 year of study - this strikes me as inadvisable. It is a mistake to set about learning such things without having mastered simpler pieces - for example have you learnt any of the Bagatelles? Have you studied any of the Bach 2 part inventions? I also think a few Haydn and Mozart sonatas should be attempted before coming to the Beethoven sonatas.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by KyleC:
i was just wondering in the musical field is a late start, like 14, bad? i have noticed that many of the fine musicians and composers, such as beethoven, all started when they were 5 or 6 and they all have a family of musicians. my family is not very musical and i started at age 14. am i doomed?

[This message has been edited by KyleC (edited 07-13-2004).]

I bought myself an electric guitar at the age of 19, having never played an instrument of any kind before. By the age of 22 I was a rock'n'roll guitar hero of the first order.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[ruudp]

Originally posted by KyleC:
i was just wondering in the musical field is a late start, like 14, bad? i have noticed that many of the fine musicians and composers, such as beethoven, all started when they were 5 or 6 and they all have a family of musicians. my family is not very musical and i started at age 14. am i doomed?

[This message has been edited by KyleC (edited 07-13-2004).]

If that would be the case then I'M doomed as well..
I started to play the piano when I was 14 aswell may 2000...I'm now 18 yet can play as most of my music-class can who have been studying for much longer..It doesen't really matter WHEN you start..as long as you've got the talent and DRIVE to succeed then you WILL succeed...That's atleast the way I see it.

Regards,
Ruud

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by ruudp:
If that would be the case then I'M doomed as well..
I started to play the piano when I was 14 aswell may 2000...I'm now 18 yet can play as most of my music-class can who have been studying for much longer..It doesen't really matter WHEN you start..as long as you've got the talent and DRIVE to succeed then you WILL succeed...That's atleast the way I see it.

Regards,
Ruud

And the patience when things aren't learned as readily as one would like.

[ruudp]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
And the patience when things aren't learned as readily as one would like.

you got me there sorrano that's the ONE point I'm *regrettebly* not good at..I still hold the illusion though that I will learn patience some of these days.

[~Immortal Beloved~]

Originally posted by ruudp:
[B] If that would be the case then I'M doomed as well..

no your not doomed my friend, I started practicing the piano at the age of 17 years old.

[JA Gardiner]

So much for encouraging the young. What about someone like me, a lady (don't laugh Tony!)of slightly over un certain age who is desperate to learn piano before I go too blind, deaf or arthritic to enjoy it? Anyone got a good suggestion for where to start looking for a teacher for mature beginners in East London, or any views on whether it really is possible at least to start by teaching yourself? Or should I just accept that that ship has sailed and just concentrate on enjoying hearing other people - Perahia,Pollini,Ashkenazy,Brendel, Uchida, Rubinstein and Richter being my current heroes - do it so much better than I could in several lifetimes?

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Beethoven the Man!

[This message has been edited by JA Gardiner (edited 07-13-2004).]

[cosplusisin]

well, I started playing guitar when I was 11, but only started playing piano (keyboard, actually) when I was 21. I'm 22 now, and I'm already pretty comfortable with the piano.
The guitar playing did make it easier... I already had developed an ear, and I knew what notes made chords, but the actual playing of a keyboard instrument was new to me.
I already feel like it is an old friend (the keyboard), so no, I don't think you need to worry about starting late.
And plus, 14 is pretty young anyway.. you're practically still in your prime learning time.
The only thing you have to worry about is whether or not you have an ear (in the musical sense).

[KyleC]

ah so there is hope. few. yes i beleive that i have the talent and the drive. and peter i learned a few of the Bagatelles before. Fur Elise for example. i believe that is one of the Bagatelles and then one other. i also leanred some Bach, however not much.

Why is it bad to start learning Beethoven's Sonatas? they are so advanced i am assuming. that brings up another topic.

Was Beethoven the best or among the best at piano. who else compares. and who has sonatas or pieces that are as hard if not harder than Beethoven? Rachimoninoff?

[Tegan]

Originally posted by JA Gardiner:
So much for encouraging the young. What about someone like me, a lady (don't laugh Tony!)of slightly over un certain age who is desperate to learn piano before I go too blind, deaf or arthritic to enjoy it? Anyone got a good suggestion for where to start looking for a teacher for mature beginners in East London, or any views on whether it really is possible at least to start by teaching yourself? Or should I just accept that that ship has sailed and just concentrate on enjoying hearing other people - Perahia,Pollini,Ashkenazy,Brendel, Uchida, Rubinstein and Richter being my current heroes - do it so much better than I could in several lifetimes?

Of course there's hope for you! If you love music and want to play, then you should learn how, regardless of whether you'll be a concert pianist. Even if one starts lessons at the age of seven or younger, the odds are still decidedly against his ever becoming a world famous performer. I live in New York, so I don't have any advice on where to find a teacher, but I hope you do find one, and best wishes for your success!

[Tegan]

Originally posted by Peter:
No you are not doomed! Of course ideally it is best to start young, around 7 years. The most important thing is not to be impatient or over-practice! Chopin advised against more than 3 hours for his most advanced pupils. I am a little worried at hearing the number of people here who start playing the Pathetique after 1 year of study - this strikes me as inadvisable. It is a mistake to set about learning such things without having mastered simpler pieces - for example have you learnt any of the Bagatelles? Have you studied any of the Bach 2 part inventions? I also think a few Haydn and Mozart sonatas should be attempted before coming to the Beethoven sonatas.

I must say that I disagree with you. I was fifteen when I started playing the piano, and if my teacher had given me nothing but the simplest pieces, I would have quickly lost interest. Also, if you are interested in majoring in music and have a late start, the faster you can advance, the better, or no college will accept you. Most colleges require at least one movement of a classical piano sonata. I had only been playing for two and a half years when I began preparing my audition. There is certainly nothing wrong with inventions and minuets, and I have played quite a few, but if I hadn't learned pieces that were much harder, I would never have been able to get into a college as a music major.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Tegan:

I must say that I disagree with you. I was fifteen when I started playing the piano, and if my teacher had given me nothing but the simplest pieces, I would have quickly lost interest. Also, if you are interested in majoring in music and have a late start, the faster you can advance, the better, or no college will accept you. Most colleges require at least one movement of a classical piano sonata. I had only been playing for two and a half years when I began preparing my audition. There is certainly nothing wrong with inventions and minuets, and I have played quite a few, but if I hadn't learned pieces that were much harder, I would never have been able to get into a college as a music major.

Well perhaps if you yourself were a teacher with years of experience you wouldn't disagree! Unless you're a genius it is unwise to attempt music that is way too difficult, you simply learn all the wrong muscular movements and end up with an unservicable technique. I have had many pupils come to me from just such a background and it is very hard if not impossible to change the way they play.

Anyway my comments were in reference to one year of study - only a few movements from the Beethoven sonatas are below ABRSM Grade 8 (final grade level) and it would be irresponsible of a teacher to give the Pathetique to a student after only 1 year of study!

Maybe in your case after 2 and a half years your teacher considered you had progressed quickly enough and were ready to attempt a classical sonata - that is a different matter all together.



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'Man know thyself'

[ruudp]

Originally posted by Peter:
Well perhaps if you yourself were a teacher with years of experience you wouldn't disagree! Unless you're a genius it is unwise to attempt music that is way too difficult, you simply learn all the wrong muscular movements and end up with an unservicable technique. I have had many pupils come to me from just such a background and it is very hard if not impossible to change the way they play.

Anyway my comments were in reference to one year of study - only a few movements from the Beethoven sonatas are below ABRSM Grade 8 (final grade level) and it would be irresponsible of a teacher to give the Pathetique to a student after only 1 year of study!

Maybe in your case after 2 and a half years your teacher considered you had progressed quickly enough and were ready to attempt a classical sonata - that is a different matter all together.

You're quite right indeed peter..I've been playing for 4 years now and most confess I've played bits and pieces of al the famous piano-sonata's but I've only played the 2nd movement of the pathetique and the op.14 nr1 and the adagio from the "moonlight" in lessons for the rest I've got to lay of these sonata's untill I'm technically better equiped..polyhone works are still a drag for me..they just are SOOOO hard for me to play

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by JA Gardiner:
So much for encouraging the young. What about someone like me, a lady (don't laugh Tony!)of slightly over un certain age who is desperate to learn piano before I go too blind, deaf or arthritic to enjoy it? Anyone got a good suggestion for where to start looking for a teacher for mature beginners in East London, or any views on whether it really is possible at least to start by teaching yourself? Or should I just accept that that ship has sailed and just concentrate on enjoying hearing other people - Perahia,Pollini,Ashkenazy,Brendel, Uchida, Rubinstein and Richter being my current heroes - do it so much better than I could in several lifetimes?

There are piano books geared towards adults that you could pick up and learn from. When I started (at 16) I used an adult book by Bastion. I felt it was very good and had a bit different approach to learning to play piano. I don't know if it is still in publication, but there are others.