Why does music have an effect on us?

[spaceray]

Where does it come from?Does it have a meaning?
These questions are posed in a book I am reading by Howard Goodall,titled Big Bangs
The story of 5 Discoveries that Changed Musical History.
Can you guess the 5 Things?

[Chris]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Where does it come from?Does it have a meaning?
These questions are posed in a book I am reading by Howard Goodall,titled Big Bangs
The story of 5 Discoveries that Changed Musical History.
Can you guess the 5 Things?

The fingers on Beethoven's right hand

[Peter]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Where does it come from?Does it have a meaning?
These questions are posed in a book I am reading by Howard Goodall,titled Big Bangs
The story of 5 Discoveries that Changed Musical History.
Can you guess the 5 Things?

Guido Arezzo and musical notation.
Opera.
Equal Temperament.
The Fortepiano.
Recording.

I saw the tv series and would have added the modal system and Gregorian chant to the list.

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'Man know thyself'

[dawncejames]

My penny's worth again - I simply love Gregorian Chants. I find them peaceful and relaxing.

I also like Elizabethan, Baroque and early 13th and 14th century music. I can not explain exactly why, because I consider myself quite a modern person.

Perhaps there is a psycologist out there who can explain.

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[Chris]

Gregorian Chant is good stuff. Interestingly, children really seem to take to it compared to other kinds of music.

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Chris:
Gregorian Chant is good stuff. Interestingly, children really seem to take to it compared to other kinds of music.

Tibetan chants are supposed to have a healing effect. I enjoy listening to those once in awhile.

[Geratlas]

Originally posted by Peter:
Guido Arezzo and musical notation. Opera. Equal Temperament. The Fortepiano. Recording. I saw the tv series and would have added the modal system and Gregorian chant to the list.

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the modal system. What recognizes it - Made LvB. ever use of the system? His Inquiring Intressario G. asking.

[AndrewMyers]

The modes are types of scales. Most western music uses the major and minor mode of the scale.

The best way to imagine it is to think of the white keys on the piano. normally you play the scale from C to C. If you play D to D you get a weird D minor. It's called the Dorian mode. And you can do the same thing for each note off the scale. The scale A - A just using white notes is the minor mode. Jazz uses the Dorian (d - D) and mixolydian (g to g) a lot. Spanish music often uses the Phrygian mode (E - E)

These scales don't sound quite as defined as the normal major and minor scales because they don't have the dominant - tonic cadence (the dum - DUMM which ends most classical pieces)

Beethoven broke new ground by using them in his later quartets especially the slow movement of the A minor.
The modes became important during the 20th century as a way of avoiding normal tonality without being atonal.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Geratlas:

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the modal system. What recognizes it - Made LvB. ever use of the system? His Inquiring Intressario G. asking.

The modes which had been around since greek times (though different to the medieval modes) were a system of organising an octave scale to a certain pattern of tones and semitones around a given tonal centre. The medieval modes evolved gradually and by the 11th century 8 modes were recognised - the only accidental used was Bb, otherwise only the white keys (Keyboard). The names were Dorian (starting on D), Hypodorian ,Phrygian (E), Hypophrygian, Lydian (F), Hypolydian, Mixolydian (G), Hypomixolydian.

Yes Beethoven made use of the Lydian in the 3rd mov of Op.132. Brahms uses the Phrygian to open the slow mov of his 4th symphony.

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 06-12-2004).]

[Tony John Hearne]

Peter yet again you have made me wish that I was a musician

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Love from London

[william jesset]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AndrewMyers:
[B]The modes are types of scales.

.. white keys on the piano. normally you play the scale from C to C. .. play D to D you get .. D minor. ..the Dorian mode. same .. for each note off the scale.
Jazz uses the Dorian (d - d) and mixolydian (g to g) a lot. Spanish music often uses the Phrygian mode (E - E) (played over a
Tonic/secondary dominant progression WJ)

These scales don't sound quite as defined as the normal major and minor scales because they don't have the dominant - tonic cadence (the dum - DUMM which ends most classical pieces)


"The modes became important during the 20th century as a way of avoiding normal tonality without being atonal."

As Im new to this forum I've been ejoying
reviewing past topics such as this,and If I may I would like to add futher comments, particularly regards to the "jazz" referance.
As "jazz" held a position of favor in the 20th cen. it was unique in the fact it was a music that evolved tremendously due to its relationship with technology/consumer marketing of product for mass consumption.
Since the first "recording" appeared,Music
could ineffect be "worldwide". Music was reduced to its basic component of aural sound. So anyone would be able to experience
CARUSO,no longer the pastime of the privileged.
Just as published Music did before
,recordings raised the bar for musicianship,
and since most teachers used the "classic's
as source material for students,early "jazz"
men were well versed in the "logic' of form
as handed to us by the masters.Bach to Czerny etc.
This is an overview as I don't want to write a dissertation at your expense.
Jump forward as more people due to the restructuring of society via better living
through technology ,became able to become a
musician as an vocation,scales/modes returned in voque.
Point is that just like the past ,if Im
the only Silversmith in the kingdom,it
behoves me to safeguard the 'secrets'of my
craft or I and my family starve,but if I have
a willing PAYING clientle,a student,I still
must produce a lesson,or better yet a semester if you will,"see you next Thursday".
Hence the ballyhoo over Modes/scales,this
can be dissimulated into numerous chapters
of numerous Books(product).
This brings us to my point,that it is
HARMONY(cadential) not scales or modes that produce Modern Music be it Beethoven or Charlie Parker- chords dictate what is to be played at any given time, this is what creates melodic intervals as opposed to linear scale playing,the "see how FAST I can Play"school"that sprung from player/teachers
not willing to lose their status as the
"baddest Cat on the Bandstand"as they promote
scales as the way to master,in this case
Jazz Harmony.
Yes I am aware that THIS is a B. site,to be
sure the 1st 2 bars of FUR ELISE has "fueled'
many a career in Jazz as a melodic motive.
Popular 'tin pan'alley/Jazz composers
extrapolated I-IV-I-V candental to keep pace
with the times,with the experiment
of the masters as what to do to create a
harmonic "movement'within a static framework.
Scales are the 'musical'snake oil that has
been foisted upon the young and impressionable. During the period after
WWII when the public clamored for the new and
since most Jazz players had "Burned out",this
ushered in the "Modal' period (M.Davis etc)
of just playing Modes over extended measures
of static harmony. Bebop was a showcase only for virtuosos who could navigate 2 different chords per measure with all types chordal extensions so that the chord hardly retain
its basic function, hence the "burnout".
What I've been leading up to is this.
For all of you my dear friends can related
as for example,friends,the coffee
house, the tele,wherever modern life takes
you ,you can see the results of the "dumbing"
down of society in their distain for GOOD
music/harmony. This I attribute to non-
players who stuggled to put into terms something they never could do,hence scales
as the answer to improvise over harmony,
when scales are merely the tonal organization
that gave birth to Chords.4 notes make a 7th
chord that leaves 3 or 8 notes left over
depending on either diatonic vs chromatic.
You have to know chordal harmony to make up
motives that apply somewhat like a proper
word in the proper space of you conversation.
Real time jazz Virtuosos workout/compose
precisely the "solo' before hand only to
make variants during performance but still manage to "speak' the language.If you dont
'resolve'properly even unsophisticated ears
will hear it. Hence the widespead use of
"pentatonic' blues scale(black keys only)
as a panacea for the unskilled.
I was asked what is Music/ Truth? in reponse to my previous posts.
Thanks to their/your insights I now can answer:
It has a Spirit of the Tragic/Comedy
inherit within. The pure Logic of Pythagorean
truth of polarity, it will make you cry and
at the same time marvel,inspire you with the
will to LIVE, the joy of thank you, for I am
alive to experience this mystery of you and
me here right now,and enrich me so that we BOTH rise to the occasion and be the noble
creatures that we are but refuse/fear to acknowledge.
As I'm not in a position to judge, this is
just an observation,but a "electronic'Morse
code(tech beat or whatever genre) that is perpetuated by A)corperation B) cult of celebrity c)unskilled labor does not meet
the critera of "Musica Humana" as prescribed
by ancient mystics who without a telescope
as we know it postulated basics laws of the universe.
So shall we ride horses and wear loincloth?
Unlikely' but as I drink my coffee at the
pub,I can't help but notice "why would anyone
want to listen to That? when as I browsed the
mega-music CD shoppe the night before I was
overwhelmed with the fact that I would/could
never afford the time or the expense to hear
all of just the Classic CD section.
Thank you and I pray I've not offended
anyone
Wm Jesset