Music I dislike...

[King Stephen]

Originally posted by Peter:
Then of course tastes change, I recall disliking the Symphonie fantastique on first hearing though I admire it now - there's also some Beethoven that didn't appeal at first such as Op.95 and the grosse fugue - it took me a long time to appreciate them.

Peter,
I believe that to a small degree tastes do change but on the other hand I have loved the Eroica since I was 11 or 12years old. And the Berlioz, another work I love just as much today as when I first heard it in the early 1950's. I don't think we grown out of the music as much as we acquire a love for new pieces. I may not listen to a work that I love as much as I used to but that is because I have a larger, much larger, repertoire to listen to, and is it Gurn who says "So much music, so little time". Think back to when you first heard the Berlioz S.F. and try to remember just how much music you liked then as compaired to now.
We are taken by certain pieces to the point of obsession only to have it wane to a point of reality, but I don't think we change our view on the work as much we just put it into a proper perspective.

[This message has been edited by King Stephen (edited 06-29-2004).]

[Gurn Blanston]

King,
Yes, that is definitely a Gurnism, one of my great laments. Oh well. Your point is well taken too. When I began to seriously collect music, as you know it was violin concertos, and when I got my first copy off Beethoven's (that's right, Anne Sophie Mutter - BPO/Karajan) I would have worn it out if it was a record. I rarley play it today, perhpas 1 or 2 times a month. Do I love it less? Heck no! But I have so much more to listen to now that the VC comes around less often to start with, and the genre has been replaced by chamber music as my primo listening choice. In any case, it may be a simple predisposition on my part, but I always like what I had liked, and I never like what I hadn't liked, so far. I am sure glad that it was love at first... for me and the Serioso, Peter, because I probably wouldn't have done as you did!


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Regards,
Gurn
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That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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[Gurn Blanston]

From H.L. Mencken, my kind of guy
"The genuine music-lover may accept the carnal husk of opera to get at the kernel of actual music within, but that is no sign that he approves the carnal husk or enjoys gnawing through it. Most musicians, indeed, prefer to hear operatic music outside the opera house; that is why one so often hears such lowly things, say, as 'The Ride of the Valkyrie' in the concert hall. 'The Ride of the Valkyrie' has a certain intrinsic value as pure music; played by a competent orchestra it may give civilized pleasure. But as it is commonly performed in an opera house, with a posse of fat beldames throwing themselves about the stage, it can only produce the effect of a dose of ipecac. The sort of person who actually delights in such spectacles is the sort of person who delights in gas-pipe furniture. Such half-wits are in a majority in every opera house west of the Rhine. They go to the opera, not to hear music, not even to hear bad music, but merely to see a more or less obscene circus. A few, perhaps, have a further purpose; they desire to assist in that circus, to show themselves in the capacity of fashionables, to enchant the yokelry with their splendor. But the majority must be content with the more modest aim. What they get for the outrageous prices they pay for seats is a chance to feast their eyes upon glittering members of the superior demi-monde, and to abase their groveling souls before magnificoes on their own side of the footlights. They esteem a performance, not in proportion as true music is on tap, but in proportion as the display of notorious characters on the stage is copious, and the exhibition of wealth in the boxes is lavish. A soprano who can gargle her way up to F sharp in alt is more to such simple souls than a whole drove of Johann Sebastian Bachs; her one real rival in the entire domain of art is the contralto who has a pension from a former grand duke and is reported to be enceinte by several stockbrokers."

H.L. Mencken, "Opera," Prejudices: Second Series

Lord, I couldn't have put it better myself, what a pity!

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Regards,
Gurn
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That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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[This message has been edited by Gurn Blanston (edited 06-30-2004).]

[Beyond Within]

I dont like Gershwin at all. His music is too "cutsy" for me. Not only that, but it makes me depressed, not "depressed" in the "wow this music is so good at expressing depression, that I feel wonderful" no, it actually recreates the feeling of hopelessness in me. Not enjoyable.

I despise most of the Russian romantics, "screeching violins" music. Its all too sentimental for me.

I hate the Beatles. No, "the studio" is not a musical instrument, so any innovations stemming from it hold no musical value in my view.

Who said they cant stand the tone of electric guitar? In popular music it is mostly noise - but their is some grand neo-classical shred playing you should try. For instance: Yngwie Malmsteens "Concerto for Electric guitar in Eb minor". I would be willing to burn you a copy and mail it if you would promise to listen to it. I am interested in what traditional classical music listeners would think of it.

[Sorrano]

Can't say that I've ever had much of an ear for jazz, although I don't find it the least bit offensive. But what I do find offensive is what I call pretended music that much is labeled as popular. When a radio is on I subconciously tune it out that I am not even aware it is on. However, unlike Peter, I quite like the more serious music of the post 1950's, such as Penderecki, Crumb, and Ligeti to name a few. Anyone familiar with Hovaness? I quite like his stuff, too.

There are very few styles if any that are pre 1900 that I dislike. I am relatively easy to please.

[Steppenwolf]

Originally posted by Beyond Within:
I dont like Gershwin at all. His music is too "cutsy" for me. Not only that, but it makes me depressed, not "depressed" in the "wow this music is so good at expressing depression, that I feel wonderful" no, it actually recreates the feeling of hopelessness in me. Not enjoyable.

I do know exactly what you mean. I dislike Gerswhin. Please, fellow posters, don't take offence to this, because none is meant - but Gershwin's music is too AMERICAN for me. American, in a bad way. It is music without soul. All jazzy, glitzy tacky, bombast and show ... too broadway and popcorn ... it is the Coca-Cola or McDonalds of classical music. No dignity, no elevated, lofty refinement that is to be found in the European masters.


On the subject of depression, there is a lot of music that makes me depressed, but NONE of it amongst the great masters. The great masters can express tragic emotions, and yet paradoxically make them live-enhancing and uplifting - they sublimate negativity - the apotheosis of human suffering. Like for instance the tragic 2nd movement of the Eroica. By contrast, inferior quality music will often be depressing, when it is attempting to be happy. Think of the dreadful 'Muzak' they play in shopping centers. The fake cheeriness is nauseating and deeply depressing. Another example of music which I find EXTREMELY depressing, although I admit some of it displays musical merit, are a lot of the songs of Simon & Garfunkel. They're sickly, nauseating, sugary-sweet, vomit-inducing and generally revolting (this is my subjective reaction, at least).

[spaceray]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
[B] I quite like the more serious music of the post 1950's, such as Penderecki, Crumb, and Ligeti to name a few.
B]

Sorrano,
Do you mean George Crumb?
Muriel

[~Immortal Beloved~]

Here is what I hate the most of all king stephen...

John Cage
Wagner
Debussy

and others I don't remember their names right now.

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Sorrano,
Do you mean George Crumb?
Muriel

Yes, I do. I've enjoyed his quartet (sorry, but can't remember the name of it at the moment--something to do with electric instruments) and his Ancient Voices of Children.

[Joy]

Well, after what i said about John Cage in another thread I guess I shall have to add him to my lists of dislikes! I don't care much for anything after the middle of the 20th century either.

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[~Immortal Beloved~]

Originally posted by Joy:
I don't care much for anything after the middle of the 20th century either.

Me too Joy. I don't even like them at all.

[Beyond Within]

"I do know exactly what you mean. I dislike Gerswhin. Please, fellow posters, don't take offence to this, because none is meant - but Gershwin's music is too AMERICAN for me. American, in a bad way. It is music without soul. All jazzy, glitzy tacky, bombast and show ... too broadway and popcorn ... it is the Coca-Cola or McDonalds of classical music. No dignity, no elevated, lofty refinement that is to be found in the European masters."

That was awesome. Thanks for elaborating FLAWLESSLY what I meant by "cutsy".


"The great masters can express tragic emotions, and yet paradoxically make them live-enhancing and uplifting - they sublimate negativity - the apotheosis of human suffering. Like for instance the tragic 2nd movement of the Eroica. By contrast, inferior quality music will often be depressing, when it is attempting to be happy. "

Perfect again. You should read "The Aesthetics of Music" by Roger Scruton (if you already havent) He said something like "Musak is depressing becauese of its asinine cheeriness".

[urtextmeister]

There is so much to respond to in this thread that I don't know where to begin.

I am surprised at the general dislike of Debussy, whom I consider one of the most ingenious and original composers of all time.

Liszt was a very inconsistent composer. If you sort through the junk you find real treasures.

Gershwin. Jazzy, glitzy, tacky, etc. Music without a soul. Maybe, but isn't that America is all about? Gershwin emerged from tin pan alley with all of the other uneducated slobs who just wanted to make a buck. His genius was in writing songs, not symphonic works.

Opera.
I enjoyed the quote, Gurn.
Opera going is a lot like being a baseball fan or a Mormon. It might seem ridiculous to outsiders, but when you are IN the experience, it is unbelievable rewarding. I have sat through a four-hour opera and cried because it was over. I can be like a more intense and wonderful version of life.

I have two children who are very picky eaters. One of them will only eat chicken nuggets and macaroni and cheese. I tell her that some day she will like other things, but at this point, she can't understand that.

Doesn't anyone aspire to like and appreciate more composers that they currently do?

[Sorrano]

Generally I've not been much interested in Debussy. Then I hear portions of some of his music and I think it's pretty good. Then I find out it's Debussy. I need to listen more to his stuff.

Gershwin's synthesis of "serious" and jazz are effective for me. While I am not into jazz I do respect the success that he has had in that synthesis.

Perhaps much of 20th Century music, particularly the avant garde is an acquirred taste. At the very least it offers more compositional tools and a different perspective on writing music. Some is very well done and some is garbage.

Since I've been listening to Classical Music it's not been realistic for me to have anything in common with the popular music of this era. It offers me nothing and rather annoys me. While I try to be open minded about all forms of music I find this the most difficult to appreciate.

[Peter]

Originally posted by urtextmeister:
There is so much to respond to in this thread that I don't know where to begin.

I am surprised at the general dislike of Debussy, whom I consider one of the most ingenious and original composers of all time.

Liszt was a very inconsistent composer. If you sort through the junk you find real treasures.

I'm with you on Debussy - quite strange the hostility that has been shown towards this innovative master of orchestral textures and colours. Also I think you are spot on with Liszt - one of my favourites is the electrifying Totentanz.

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'Man know thyself'