Death and the Muse

[Amalie]

More 'Immortal Beloved' reviews.


http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/s...236072,00.html



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~ Unsterbliche Geliebte ~

[Peter]

Interestingly the article says about Josephine Brunsvik - "She remarried in 1810 and there's no reason to suppose her relationship with the composer was rekindled around the time of his 1812 stay in Teplitz."

On the contrary (though I'm not saying she was the IB), in 1812 Josephine's marriage was in ruins - a violent brawl on April 3rd with her husband followed by separation - all notes in her diaries for the following months were carefully removed.

Nice that the article links back to the IB page on this site!

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'Man know thyself'

[Joy]

Very interesting article, Amalie. I have not had a chance to read through all of it yet but I will! I did notice they mentioned Solomon again and his Antonie Brentano theory!!

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Amalie]

In 1810 Josephine married the Baron Christoph von Stackleberg. This marriage alos soon proved to be unhappy for Josephine. According to George Marek sometime in late 1813 or early 1814, Josephine and her husband quarreled over financial debts. She refused him money and he left Vienna returning towards the end of 1814 at which time he demanded his children from their marriage to accompany him to Russia where he had inherited property. Though Josephine protested, he did take the children with him.
In 1819 he returned briefly to Vienna before proceeding on to his mother's estates.
Josephine sick and exhausted by this time did not protest his going or that the children went with him She continued to live in Vienna with her sister, Therese and her four children from her marriage to Count Deym. In 1821 economically pressed, her spirit broken, her nerves torn to pieces, Josephine died at the age of 42.

Sentimentality and the romantic hope of an eternal love that never dies compels one to believe Josephine is the 'Immortal Beloved'. And perhaps for this reason Josephine's candidacy on the European continent for the Immortal Beloved remains an undying hope. But there is not one shred of evidence to show that Josephine and Beethoven had any correspondence or any relationship once so ever after 1807. Not one.

There is however, evidence that Josephine was living with her husband in 1812 in Vienna. l And there is evidence that Josephine's marriage at this time was still in tact.
Maynard Solomon states that on June 14, 1812, Josephine's husband wrote to his mother in Estonia:

Your kind letter has made both of us very indescribably happy.....This summer we have undertaken to travel Reval, but I can't permanently return to my homeland for several more years, because I am involved in business here and have taken on responsibilities which I am, in honor, bound to fulfill....Little Theophile can already walk very well, and is even beginning to talk; al of her teeth have come in painlessly and until now, thank God, she hasn't been sick.
My wife and....the children send a thousand greetings and we often speak about our joy at the prospect of seeing you this summer Reval.

This places the Stackleberg's living together with their little Theophile [and the four children from Josephine's first marriage] in Vienna at the time the letter was written
Whether or not she had traveled to and from Prague to meet Beethoven; she was still, however, very much married and it seems happily-- at least her husband so thinks.

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Reading Beethoven's many letter's to Josephine, it has come to my attention that in none of the letter's he wrote to her does he use the more intimate form 'Du' as he does when writing to Bettina.



[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited 06-20-2004).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Amalie:

Whether or not she had traveled to and from Prague to meet Beethoven; she was still, however, very much married and it seems happily-- at least her husband so thinks.

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Well not according to the day book of Vicky (Josephine's 12 year old daughter) who recorded a scene of great anger between her parents that 'pierced her to the heart' 3rd April 1812.

Therese's day book for 1812 also recounts the disatrous marriage of the Stacklebergs.

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'Man know thyself'

[Amalie]

From the letter of 1812, written by Josephines husband to his mother, they are obviously doting over their little daughter Theophile who couldn't have been more than one year old. Then in April? 1813, Josephine gives birth to another daughter Minona.
How can this occur if their marriage was in ruins in 1812??
Surely no intelligent woman would allow herself to get into such a situation.
Especially a strong minded disciplined person like Josephine.
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~ Unsterbliche Geliebte ~



[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited 06-21-2004).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Amalie:
From the letter of 1812, written by Josephines husband to his mother, they are obviously doting over their little daughter Theophile who couldn't have been more than one year old. Then in April? 1813, Josephine gives birth to another daughter Minona.
How can this occur if their marriage was in ruins in 1812??
Surely no intelligent woman would allow herself to get into such a situation.
Especially a strong minded disciplined person like Josephine.

Well the evidence from her daughter Vicky and sister Therese suggest that all was not well despite Stackelberg's letter to his mother. Therese and Josephine were very close so I see no reason to doubt her - at this time she was governess to the children. Stackelberg drank, used prostitutes and was violent, so clearly it is possible that in July 1812 Josephine turned to Beethoven for support - I use the word possible, not probable!

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 06-21-2004).]