Beethoven's Teachers

[MissB]

I am currently working on a Senior Project in which I am teaching a friend to play piano. One of the requirements is writing a paper that connects in some way with the Final Product. I have chosen to write my paper over Beethoven, his teachers and the affect they had on his life and music. I am still doing research and learning more and more as I go, but would be interested in anything any one else has to offer!

[spaceray]

The" Great Mogul"-as Joseph Haydn called his pupil Beethoven-proved to be a demanding and independent disciple.
The master-teacher was not equal to the task of training a musician who already knew what he wanted-and who, in the final count,could get it just as well on his own.
from Beethoven ,The Composer as Hero
Philippe A. Autexier

[Peter]

Originally posted by MissB:
I am currently working on a Senior Project in which I am teaching a friend to play piano. One of the requirements is writing a paper that connects in some way with the Final Product. I have chosen to write my paper over Beethoven, his teachers and the affect they had on his life and music. I am still doing research and learning more and more as I go, but would be interested in anything any one else has to offer!

Gilles Van den Eeden : Piano(1779)

Tobias Pfeiffer : Piano(1779)

F.G.Rovantini : Violin(1779-81)

Franz Ries : Violin(1785/6)

W.Koch : Organ(1785/6)

Zenser : Organ(1785/6)

C.G.NEEFE : Composition(1781-)

F.J.Haydn : Composition(1792/3)

Schenk : Composition(1793-5)

ALBRECHTSBERGER: Composition(1794/5)

Salieri : Vocal composition(1794-1802/9)

Schuppanzigh : Violin(1794)

Krumpholz : Violin(1795)





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'Man know thyself'

[Peter]

I think this revealing article written by Neefe about himself shows the great influence he had on Beethoven.

CHRISTIAN GOTTLOB NEEFE: A SELF-ANALYSIS

I have a lively imagination, quick emotions, a weak memory, good judgement and feeling for all that is morally and physically good and beautiful; however these feelings are not always consistently warm.

I admire the religion of the heart, love mankind, hate evil, tolerate mistakes of understanding and excuse weakness of heart. I am diligent, sympathize with those who are unfortunate, but am somewhat hardhearted toward the poor, who are such primarily out of laziness.

I respect the fair sex. My heart tends generally toward friendliness, however I am of late less inclined toward easy friendships, because certain so-called friends have betrayed me thus making me somewhat distrustful and reserved. Toward friendship which has withstood the test of time I am loyal, active, open-hearted and sympathetic. I allow every man his personal liberty.

I do not stand on ceremony, etiquette or any forms of flattery. Because of this, I am sometimes regarded (mistakenly) as peculiar or insulting. I have nothing to do with flatterers and gossipmongers.

I love my family and maintain strict discipline and order in my home. I require propriety and order from all with whom I have dealings.

In marriage I am also somewhat reserved. I prefer not to have my my general responsibilities and productivity impeded by family and friends.

I am generally very effective, am never lazy or idle, however mechanical work is practically fatal for me. I must be in the mood to compose. The work which I am at times forced to do without being in the mood are such that I can hardly recognize them later.

I have a tendency toward solitude and the bucolic life. I am both sad and happy, however the former more than the latter. Both of these moods can change very quickly in me, as is the case with most hypochondriacs. In this frame of mind I often see things in the wrong light. I have also at such times an exaggerated sense of thrift, though otherwise money is relatively unimportant to me.

The weather has an especially stong influence on my sense of well-being. At times I am quite sociable, other-times rather cantankerous. Sometimes I am a bit cranky and bitter in expressing myself.

Social standing and titles are unimportant to me, especially when they fail to enhance their owners effectiveness in the world. Honour is above all for me the driving force behind all my dealings. I am however, at times either too proud or to modest; at times too clever, at times too fearful. In one moment I can undertake the most difficult of tasks, and at another moment I lack the confidence even to compose a small minuet, or write the cobbler a letter.

I gladly acknowledge the achievements of others, whether they are equal to or superior to my own, even those of my enemies.

I applaud high ideals, courageous negotiation, pictures of child-like or parental affection and rewarded honesty. I cannot bear either excessive pedantry or one-sided taste.

I am gladly independent, but without exaggerating my own importance. Concerning things of whose truth I am convinced or believe myself to be convinced of, I will heatedly defend, sometimes extremely so.

I have an excellent memory for good and charitable deeds from which I have benefited. I am glad to return these favors according to my strength and when I find an opportunity to do so.

I am quick to anger and easy to offend when being made fun of, by attacks on my honour, by interference in my affairs, and by professional irresponsibilitiy; on the other hand I am also easily assuaged and easy reconcile differences. I do not easily make the first move when I have been offended, but certainly when I have offended. I am no vengeful and never allow the whole to suffer for the sake of my private offences, especially when it depends wholly or partly on my effectiveness. I hate taking sides. My trust in those who have intentionally betrayed me is difficult to restore.

I like to drink wine, at times more than is probably good for my health; on the other hand however, I refrain from drinking when I have business or work to accomplish. Otherwise, I am well able to limit my needs according to my means. I am not tyrannized by current fashions.

The great men of this world I admire, if they are decent and good; I respect their laws when they promote the best among my fellow men; I take care to keep my distance from them however. I despise bad regents more than bandits.

I strive for the increase of my knowledge and improvement of my heart, although here, of course, I struggle with personal weakness, negligence and passions.

C. G. N.



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'Man know thyself'

[spaceray]

Peter,this was a great article.Thanks.

[ann hathaway]

Peter,
This is a most fascinating article on Christian Gottlob Neefe, I agree that it does reveal the great influence he had on Beethoven. Brilliant!.

[John Rasmussen]

Yes, a fascinating document. He reminds me a little of myself, especially when he writes, "...mechanical work is practically fatal for me." It sounds as if, like many artists, he tended toward depression.

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Peter:

ALBRECHTSBERGER: Composition(1794/5)

This morning I listened to a concerto for orchestra and jews harp by this teacher of Beethoven. To say the least that was very interesting. It was followed by a song by Beethoven, the first movement of the his first symphony, and A Rage over a Lost Penny. Interesting morning program.

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
This morning I listened to a concerto for orchestra and jews harp by this teacher of Beethoven.

I imagine this to have been commissioned by a very poor nobleman, who had only a jews harp, a one-stringed bass and a triangle in his court orchestra.

[SR]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
This morning I listened to a concerto for orchestra and jews harp by this teacher of Beethoven. To say the least that was very interesting. It was followed by a song by Beethoven, the first movement of the his first symphony, and A Rage over a Lost Penny. Interesting morning program.

Interesting piece isn't it ? The amazing thing is that he wrote 5 of those concertos for Jews Harp. People who have not heard a Jews Harp cadenza don't truly know music

Steve

[lysander]

Further reflection on Beethoven's teachers
when young.. There is a strange story of Tobias Pfeiffer, an eccentric musician-cum-actor, who was engaged by the theatre at Bonn in 1779 and invited to stay with the Beethoven family to help with tuition.
This was probably a mixed blessing, for Pfeiffer and Johann soon became drinking companions and thought nothing of returning home in the small hours, waking up then 9 year old Ludwig, and making him play through the night.
Ludwig probably assimilated far more by hearing, overhearing and participating in the informal domestic music-making of Johann and his colleagues.

The most significant event of that time was the arrival in Bonn of Christian Gottlob Neefe, who was to become Beethoven's first real teacher. As a mentor the contrast with Johann could not have been greater.

Neefe was a man with strong ethical principles, well-versed in literature and philosophy and a rare enthusiast for the music of J.S. Bach. He encouraged his pupil study the preludes and fugues of The Well-tempered Clavier, still unpublished and only in manuscript copies. It is interesting to reflect that as Ludwig was enjoying his initiation into the older 'learned' style, the 26 year old Mozart was also discovering Bach and Handel fugues for the first time at the home of Baron van Swieten in Veinna.
Both were to be enriched by the exposure to Bach's expressive mastery of counterpoint, without which we should hardly have had the miraculous finale of Mozart's Jupiter Symphony, or looking much further ahead, the increasingly contrapuntal textures of Beethoven's last-period works.

[Rod]

Originally posted by lysander:

....without which we should hardly have had the miraculous finale of Mozart's Jupiter Symphony,

I know you're going to call me Mr. Crazy, but I was never particularly impressed with Mozart's contrapuntal skills as expressed in this movement.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
I know you're going to call me Mr. Crazy, but I was never particularly impressed with Mozart's contrapuntal skills as expressed in this movement.

It is the coda that is a quite remarkable contrapuntal feat - I don't say you are crazy, only that you are in a minority in the musical world!

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
It is the coda that is a quite remarkable contrapuntal feat - I don't say you are crazy, only that you are in a minority in the musical world!

Well, from my experience people never mention the coda specifically in this respect, but the movement as a whole. In this context I have been disappointed with the movement. It sounds a little clumsy to me from the outset. I suspect I may be more than a minority, probably a ..er.. singularity!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited February 05, 2003).]

[Amalie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter:
[B]I think this revealing article written by Neefe about himself shows the great influence he had on Beethoven.

CHRISTIAN GOTTLOB NEEFE: A SELF-ANALYSIS

I have a lively imagination, quick emotions, a weak memory, good judgement and feeling for all that is morally and physically good and beautiful; however these feelings are not always consistently warm.

I admire the religion of the heart, love mankind, hate evil, tolerate mistakes of understanding and excuse weakness of heart. I am diligent, sympathize with those who are unfortunate, but am somewhat hardhearted toward the poor, who are such primarily out of laziness.

I respect the fair sex. My heart tends generally toward friendliness, however I am of late less inclined toward easy friendships, because certain so-called friends have betrayed me thus making me somewhat distrustful and reserved. Toward friendship which has withstood the test of time I am loyal, active, open-hearted and sympathetic. I allow every man his personal liberty.

I do not stand on ceremony, etiquette or any forms of flattery. Because of this, I am sometimes regarded (mistakenly) as peculiar or insulting. I have nothing to do with flatterers and gossipmongers.

I love my family and maintain strict discipline and order in my home. I require propriety and order from all with whom I have dealings.

In marriage I am also somewhat reserved. I prefer not to have my my general responsibilities and productivity impeded by family and friends.

I am generally very effective, am never lazy or idle, however mechanical work is practically fatal for me. I must be in the mood to compose. The work which I am at times forced to do without being in the mood are such that I can hardly recognize them later.

I have a tendency toward solitude and the bucolic life. I am both sad and happy, however the former more than the latter. Both of these moods can change very quickly in me, as is the case with most hypochondriacs. In this frame of mind I often see things in the wrong light. I have also at such times an exaggerated sense of thrift, though otherwise money is relatively unimportant to me.

The weather has an especially stong influence on my sense of well-being. At times I am quite sociable, other-times rather cantankerous. Sometimes I am a bit cranky and bitter in expressing myself.

Social standing and titles are unimportant to me, especially when they fail to enhance their owners effectiveness in the world. Honour is above all for me the driving force behind all my dealings. I am however, at times either too proud or to modest; at times too clever, at times too fearful. In one moment I can undertake the most difficult of tasks, and at another moment I lack the confidence even to compose a small minuet, or write the cobbler a letter.

I gladly acknowledge the achievements of others, whether they are equal to or superior to my own, even those of my enemies.

I applaud high ideals, courageous negotiation, pictures of child-like or parental affection and rewarded honesty. I cannot bear either excessive pedantry or one-sided taste.

I am gladly independent, but without exaggerating my own importance. Concerning things of whose truth I am convinced or believe myself to be convinced of, I will heatedly defend, sometimes extremely so.

I have an excellent memory for good and charitable deeds from which I have benefited. I am glad to return these favors according to my strength and when I find an opportunity to do so.

I am quick to anger and easy to offend when being made fun of, by attacks on my honour, by interference in my affairs, and by professional irresponsibilitiy; on the other hand I am also easily assuaged and easy reconcile differences. I do not easily make the first move when I have been offended, but certainly when I have offended. I am no vengeful and never allow the whole to suffer for the sake of my private offences, especially when it depends wholly or partly on my effectiveness. I hate taking sides. My trust in those who have intentionally betrayed me is difficult to restore.

I like to drink wine, at times more than is probably good for my health; on the other hand however, I refrain from drinking when I have business or work to accomplish. Otherwise, I am well able to limit my needs according to my means. I am not tyrannized by current fashions.

The great men of this world I admire, if they are decent and good; I respect their laws when they promote the best among my fellow men; I take care to keep my distance from them however. I despise bad regents more than bandits.

I strive for the increase of my knowledge and improvement of my heart, although here, of course, I struggle with personal weakness, negligence and passions.

C. G. N.

*******


I was reading this fascinating analysis again has promted a few more thoughts.

Possibly Neefe was the most influential teacher on the formation of the young Beethoven.
This is an extraordinary personal testament by which reads like Beethoven's own Credo.
Neefe seemed to have a remarkable awareness of the young Ludwig's deepest needs. He fostered his literary and philisophical as well as musical self-discovery.
When Neefe mentions 'religion of the heart' it sounds very close to the English novelist dictum; of the holiness of the hearts affections' and I am sure that Beethoven's outlook, certainly on music is very close to this philosophy.

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~ Unsterbliche Geliebte ~

[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited 06-12-2004).]