Authentic page mp3s - Variations for piano trio Op.44

[Peter]

Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

Appologies for the big file (9mb), but you're getting the whole work at least. This is an excellent rendition and the CD as a whole is a definite recommendation.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 06-02-2004).]

[Pastorali]

Rod, I'm not able to download it. Oddly, it loads the stream to listen to it, but no download on my harddisk.

[urtextmeister]

Beautiful playing!
Can you tell us more about the Castle Trio? Who is in it? I assume Vernon and Irene have nothing to do with it...

Another example of Beethoven making something great out of not much. This theme is about as interesting as the theme from Jeopardy. And yet Beethoven creates such a magnificent world of music from it.

When it came to tunes, Beethoven was like a generous boss: "I see great potential."

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Pastorali:
Rod, I'm not able to download it. Oddly, it loads the stream to listen to it, but no download on my harddisk.

Try rightclicking the audio file and select "save target as" (if you are using internet explorer).

[Pastorali]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
Try rightclicking the audio file and select "save target as" (if you are using internet explorer).

Thanks Sorrano! You brought me on the right way, thanks a lot.
(Rod, sorry for being off topic )

[Rod]

Originally posted by urtextmeister:
Beautiful playing!
Can you tell us more about the Castle Trio? Who is in it? I assume Vernon and Irene have nothing to do with it...

Lambert Orkis fortepiano (Walter copy)
Marilyn McDonald violin
Kenneth Slowik cello


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:

Lambert Orkis fortepiano (Walter copy)
Marilyn McDonald violin
Kenneth Slowik cello

Interesting that a Walter copy rather than a restoration is used - when I first heard the Castle trio performing Op.1, I was very impressed not only with the performance but also the fortepiano. My own experience has convinced me that the argument below is correct and explains the inconsitency in tone quality we have had from fortepiano recordings.

"Winter commends Demus' refusal to restore the Beethoven and Broadwood pianos on which he had recorded a concert as a "noble impulse to preserve (their) original state," and admits that "calculating the material, thickness, and tension of strings on old pianos can prove exceedingly difficult." The disappointing tone of these pianos, however, cannot be ignored, and Winter offers the sensible advice that "...to regard any string as a sacred relic only estranges potential friends of old instruments." It follows that if original period instruments are preferable to modern ones, then well-made replicas are preferable to worn-out originals.

Some originals are impossible to either restore or replicate. Piano builders of today no longer have the skill to accurately duplicate the many layers of felt and leather used to cover the hammers of Erard pianos, for example, and the ones that survive are hardly of playing condition. Tuning is also a frequent problem of original period instruments as their weakened frames often cannot withstand high tension on the strings for any length of time, and, according to Winter, "... their (wrest planks') repair or replacement is a costly and major operation, and one that is unlikely to appeal to museum curators." Those specimens that for various reasons cannot be restored to concert-ready condition should by no means be overlooked - their nostalgic value alone is enough to be well worth the cost of their preservation. To leave Beethoven's own piano intact, crystallized original strings notwithstanding, and to then play upon the same keys that supported Beethoven's own fingers must be a magical experience. But to subject a paying public to the inevitable rattles and jangles and tuning problems of that same instrument is simply pointless. Any amount of authenticity of the performance is negated by the fact that the ensuing sound is not at all the same sound that Beethoven heard."




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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Interesting that a Walter copy rather than a restoration is used - when I first heard the Castle trio performing Op.1, I was very impressed not only with the performance but also the fortepiano. My own experience has convinced me that the argument below is correct and explains the inconsitency in tone quality we have had from fortepiano recordings.

I have never had any problem with the use of replica fortepianos in place of originals, as long as they are good replicas.



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
I have never had any problem with the use of replica fortepianos in place of originals, as long as they are good replicas.

I'm sure, but the point being made is that restored originals are probably less authentic in sound than first rate replicas. None of the restored fp recordings we have heard are as good as this Walter replica - it puzzled me as to why I liked this Castle trio sound, yet found many of the solo sonatas troublesome, now I know - the tinny, jangly sound that many restored fps produce is completely unauthentic and I agree with the writer of that article that "Any amount of authenticity of the performance is negated by the fact that the ensuing sound is not at all the same sound that Beethoven heard." Though quite what Beethoven heard of course is also open to debate!


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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I'm sure, but the point being made is that restored originals are probably less authentic in sound than first rate replicas. None of the restored fp recordings we have heard are as good as this Walter replica - it puzzled me as to why I liked this Castle trio sound, yet found many of the solo sonatas troublesome, now I know - the tinny, jangly sound that many restored fps produce is completely unauthentic and I agree with the writer of that article that "Any amount of authenticity of the performance is negated by the fact that the ensuing sound is not at all the same sound that Beethoven heard." Though quite what Beethoven heard of course is also open to debate!

I suspect the recording engineer must take some of the credit with this CD, the sound is cavernous! But I disagree that all of the original pianos sound inferior to the replicas and even though sometimes they may be a little jangly you get this abstract quality that only age can provide. I do not strictly expect or require perfection in any case from the originals. Even a dodgy old Walter with half the strings missing is better than a Steinway!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[urtextmeister]

Steinway made a few decent pianos...

[ruudp]

Rod,
Did you know that there are also several recordings of mozart music on authentic instrmuents..I've bought them recently and they are of a exquisite playing.It includes ALL of mozart music a 4e mains, some of his trio's and quartets and is great to listen too.also his variations andsmall piano pieces such as andats gigues and german dances are played on authentic piano's...they are either from schanz or walter.
I've bought them at a shop called the kruidvat..it's in dutch but still yields great performances for not too much money.
the performers included are eter van oort and Ursula Dütschler*I don't know wether these names are familiar with you*
would you be interested in the link I'd be glad too proivide it for you..

Regards,
ruud.

P.s these recordings are again as I've grown accustomed too SPLENDID..thumbs up.

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by ruudp:
Rod,
Did you know that there are also several recordings of mozart music on authentic instrmuents..I've bought them recently and they are of a exquisite playing.It includes ALL of mozart music a 4e mains, some of his trio's and quartets and is great to listen too.also his variations andsmall piano pieces such as andats gigues and german dances are played on authentic piano's...they are either from schanz or walter.
I've bought them at a shop called the kruidvat..it's in dutch but still yields great performances for not too much money.
the performers included are eter van oort and Ursula Dütschler*I don't know wether these names are familiar with you*
would you be interested in the link I'd be glad too proivide it for you..

Regards,
ruud.

P.s these recordings are again as I've grown accustomed too SPLENDID..thumbs up.

Ruud,
I won't speak for Rod, but I am under the impression that he doesn't care for Mozart, although he is too shy to come right out and say so. I, however, am passionately fond of Mozart, especially on period instruments. So, if you would post that link, perhpas it would be most useful to me.



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Regards,
Gurn
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That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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[spaceray]

Originally posted by ruudp:
[B]Rod,
Did you know that there are also several recordings of mozart music on authentic instrmuents..
Regards,
ruud.
B]

Rudd
I think you will find that Rod neither knows or cares about recordings of Mozart on authentic or any other kind of instruments,now if you were talking about Handel or Beethoven I'm sure he would be all ears.
I am very fond of a recording by Schiff and Shiokawa of Mozart's Sonatas played on his own violin and piano in the room in which he was born.
Muriel