Moments in music that you consider 'Genius'

[Beyond Within]

These arent necessarily the moments you most enjoy - its the ones that you think to yourself "ok, I could have never thought of this, and nobody else but this composer could have, this is almost divine in its inspiration".

Mine -

The intro to the second movement of the 9th - one of the most creative things I have ever heard.

The counterpoint at the end of the last movement of the Jupiter

The fluidness of how the melody at the beginning of the 40th mozart symphony develops. He just keeps on going and going, and every note sounds like it required the previous one.

The "Joy to the world" theme - for the exact same reason as the last one.


That is all I can think of for now.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Beyond Within:
These arent necessarily the moments you most enjoy - its the ones that you think to yourself "ok, I could have never thought of this, and nobody else but this composer could have, this is almost divine in its inspiration".

Mine -

The intro to the second movement of the 9th - one of the most creative things I have ever heard.

The counterpoint at the end of the last movement of the Jupiter

The fluidness of how the melody at the beginning of the 40th mozart symphony develops. He just keeps on going and going, and every note sounds like it required the previous one.

The "Joy to the world" theme - for the exact same reason as the last one.


That is all I can think of for now.

There are so many and all the great composers have them which is what makes them great compared to their contemporaries.

With Beethoven how about the opening of the 9th symphony with that mysterious tremolando. The link between the 3rd and 4th movements of the 5th symphony and corresponding moment in the last two movements of the Emperor concerto. Really one could go on ad infinitum!

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[urtextmeister]

First of all, I agree with you Peter, that transition in the 5th. I have always marvelled at that. It is like the weary and downtrodden suddenly, miraculously finding the will to triumph!

Other moments of genius:

The a minor prelude of Chopin (it is so short that I think it could be considered a moment). Who else could possibly come up with this? It is so personal, intimate, revealing, unexpected...

That moment in the Bartok third piano concerto, I'm pretty sure it is the first movement. Things are going along as usual when suddenly the door opens on this exotic, totally unexpected world. Where in the ___ did that come from?

[Sorrano]

Sometimes the more subtle things are the more ingenious. I am thinking of the secondary dominant that opens the first symphony. And also the d-flat note that occurs in the opening measures of the Eroica--unexpected in terms of musical grammar, yet it's the only thing that should have happened at that moment.

[Peter]

What about the incredibly original Symphonie fantastique of Berlioz? Written only 3 years after Beethoven's death (some of it actually before he died), it seems to spring out of nowhere - I can think of nothing remotely like it and not a single composer who influenced it.

What about the Grosse fugue or that wonderful middle section in the cavatina from Op.130? How about those 2 opening chords of the Eroica?

How about the opening chords of Tristan and Isolde?

As I said earlier we could on for ever, music is so wonderful!

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Beyond Within]

God, I really wish I lived near some of you people. I need others to listen and appreciate music with. I only have my father...

[cosplusisin]

BW... every post you've made that I've read (the last couple of days) is something where I feel the exact same way... you don't live in Edmonton, Canada, by any chance, do you? If you do, we should hang out.

[Beyond Within]

I just happen to live in... Damascus, Maryland, USA. Which is very far away from you live. Darn. Do you have AIM? I need a classical internet friend

[Tony John Hearne]

Originally posted by Peter:

What about the incredibly original Symphonie fantastique of Berlioz? Written only 3 years after Beethoven's death (some of it actually before he died), it seems to spring out of nowhere - I can think of nothing remotely like it and not a single composer who influenced it.

Peter, just to say that I was immensely inspired by your choices. I have been listening a lot recently to "Symphonie Fantastique" and find it utterly thrilling My feelings about "Grosse Fugue" have been posted too many times on this site - the Guarneri Quartet version from the late 1960's on RCA Victor (I only have it on vinyl) pushes it onto another level - such incredile attack and urgency. I read somewhere about the opening chords from "Tristan und Isolde" marking a true watershed in modern music? I think however that any discussion of genius has to include Mozart - if so then "Die Zauberflote" is for me the greatest of all inspirations.

By the way I note you live in West Sussex I shall be in Horsham tomorrow and will listeh for your piano


What about the Grosse fugue or that wonderful middle section in the cavatina from Op.130? How about those 2 opening chords of the Eroica?

How about the opening chords of Tristan and Isolde?

As I said earlier we could on for ever, music is so wonderful!

------------------
Love from London

[Tony John Hearne]

Originally posted by Tony John Hearne:

Peter my apologies - for some reason my reply became posted half way through your original and not at the end I would not want to be accused of plagiarism !!!

------------------
Love from London

[Peter]

Originally posted by Tony John Hearne:
Peter my apologies - for some reason my reply became posted half way through your original and not at the end I would not want to be accused of plagiarism !!!

I'd be honoured to be plagiarised! Anyway yes of course Mozart would be included on any discussion on genius and one of many outstanding moments has to be the closing pages of the Jupiter symphony. Also that extraordinary passage in the development of the finale to no.40, Mozart uses a tone row around 120 years before Schoenberg!

As to your Horsham visit, if you have very good hearing (I live around 18 miles from there!) you'll catch me practising Brahms sonata no.1 this morning.

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Amalie]

Originally posted by Beyond Within:
God, I really wish I lived near some of you people. I need others to listen and appreciate music with. I only have my father...

Beyond W.

I wonder if you would be interested in this site that I have recently discovered.
Called INTERNATIONAL BEETHOVEN MEETUPS.
Meeting people in your area with similar like minded interests whom you can establish a contact with and develop from there. Try this as an experiment and let me know how it appeals to you.

I have discovered Beethoven meetups London and Oxford. Though I haven's attended one yet, the one in Oxford seems intersting. Just join up and have a good time. The next meet up date is set for June 10th. I think they choose the same dates for meetings worldwide.

Go to, http://beethoven.meetup.com/

Click on meetup homepage, and enter topic(Beethoven), then your Country and City to find a meeting nearest you.


I think it is fantastic idea to bring people together of like minded interests to promote discussion and wider appreciation
of Beethoven's music.

Good Luck!

Amaile



[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited 06-01-2004).]

[Beyond Within]

wow thanks a lot! I just signed up and am set to meet 2 other fans on June 10. I will report back about how it went!

[Peter]

Originally posted by Beyond Within:
wow thanks a lot! I just signed up and am set to meet 2 other fans on June 10. I will report back about how it went!

Yes hopefully it will grow into something big with huge conventions. They could do with better publicity though - if it hadn't been for Amalie's post I'd never have known.

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[AndrewMyers]

I've signed up too. it looks like there are only 4 members worldwide though, and only 2 in London, unless I've misunderstood things.
At present it looks like I'll be cutting a lonely figure on June 10th ...
Come on, London based Beethoven admirers! I'm all for escaping cyberspace...

As for moments of genius where does one start? I love the link between the slow movement and finale of the Emperor concerto.

[This message has been edited by AndrewMyers (edited 06-02-2004).]